Episode Nine: The General Contractor
The crew dives in on the essential role of general contractors in the construction and renovation process. We welcome special guest Nat Floyd, a seasoned general contractor based in Columbus, OH. The team explores the importance of early contractor involvement in the design phase, the challenges faced by general contractors, and the critical elements of communication and quality in construction projects. Learn valuable tips for homeowners and clients on building a successful project team and navigating the complexities of home improvement and renovation. Whether you're planning a small renovation or a large-scale construction project, this episode offers insights and advice to help you achieve quality results!
Nick: Welcome to the Arcfluence Podcast, where we discuss how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. I'm Nick Karakaian, your host. And as usual, I have my two co-hosts, Paul Fatkins and Nino Samardzik, and this is episode nine. All right, guys, today we have a special guest, Nathaniel Floyd, aka Nat, who's a local contractor here in Columbus, Ohio.
Paul: I think that's the first time I've heard you call him Nathaniel.
Nick: Yeah, I didn't know your real name was Nathaniel.
Nat: The only time I get that name, by the way, is when it's my wife or my mother and I'm usually mad at me.
Nick: Well, Nat is a local contractor. He's actually my contractor. We've done several projects together, including a couple of big, complete full guts with additions and lots of surprises that cost lots of money.
Paul: Well, it's, it's construction, right? I mean, no matter what, there's always. Always a financial side.
Paul: That's unexpected.
Nick: Every project's different. Yeah. Yep. And, uh, your company's MGL. Nat, how long have I known you?
Nat: Um, I was actually just thinking about that December of 2022. I actually met you and Paul for the first time.
Nick: That we're at a
Nat: coin. No, um at the house up in near upper Arlington Chris her kitchen remodel.
Nat: That's right You came in. Um, we did drawings. Yeah drawings and Paul came in with the awesome machine to scan the house I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool. That machine costs more than what this rental is going to go
Nick: Well, I'm I'm glad that that impressed you enough just to keep hanging out with us Yeah, after that, I was like, hey, I think actually You The first project we did together was a small kitchen renovation for Sarah and Annette, their, their investment property that they have together.
Nick: And it turned out amazing. I appreciate that. And it's still that, that property's great. I love it. Um, and then I'm just like, Hey, you want to do a whole house? Yeah.
Nat: I remember going to that house for the first time and I was like walking through with obviously Chandler and my son. And I was like, uh, yeah, I don't want to touch this house.
Nat: I walked out of there. I'm like, this is a lot of work. And then somehow we ended up doing the whole thing. And it was, it came out marvelous.
Nick: Now I've worked with a lot of contractors over the years. Um, and they always say you can get three things. You can get timeline, pricing or quality. And then, and they're like pick two.
Nick: Yeah, those are the three sitting there like pick two and you can never have all three I think I actually only have with you two with you net. Yeah, we never hit timeline ever But if I had to choose I would pick quality and pricing. Yeah first. Oh,
Paul: absolutely. Yeah
Nick: Well, Nat didn't start as a contractor.
Nick: You actually have a really cool background story, which I think puts you in a different category as a lot of contractors right now. So why don't you tell everyone what you did prior and how that came about? Kind of how that speaks to making you better in your craft.
Nat: Yeah. So I was a general manager for a large distribution centers for over 20 years, like home Depot and pet smart and warehouse or lumber.
Nat: And after 20 years of doing that, I got tired of how corporate world was treating the workers. And we would have distribution sites of three, 400 people. And I watched these folks come in every day, work 16 hour days and not to get to spend any time with their family. And I finally just, I had enough. One day and uh, sitting at the house on the couch driving my wife nuts.
Nat: She's a school teacher, so she likes her summers to be alone. And there I am just watching TV and she's like, why don't you do some handy man work? I was like, okay. Because for years I've always renovated basements. So I've always done that type of stuff on the side. And, uh, First job was hanging a ceiling fan.
Nat: And next thing you know, it started getting a little bit bigger. And I had a client who actually was a marketing director for one of those, you know, one day bathroom type companies. And she looked at me, she's like, can you please redo our bathroom? And I was like, no. I don't want to do that. I don't want to get into all that because water is scary when you first start doing a bathroom.
Nat: But I knew what I was doing. So I eventually said yes to her and it just literally took off from there. Um, did a little bit of advertising and it's funny, Nick, you said about quality. You'll get more from your quality and referrals from all that. And it just took off. So it's, it's given me a great opportunity.
Nat: I've been doing this now for five years and for those folks out there listening, my son happens to work with me and it's one of the greatest honors of my life.
Nick: Oh my gosh. He's the most detailed oriented individual I've ever met. I like that. It's amazing.
Paul: I love it when he's running the coin sign in cause last meeting he was missing and I noticed the big difference.
Paul: For those of you who don't know what we refer to
Nick: coin quite often. It's a, it's a real estate, local real estate meetup that I run. I host here in Columbus, Ohio. Um, it's a lot of fun and we do a lot of networking with a lot of interesting people. What does
Paul: coin stand for?
Nick: Central Ohio investors network.
Nick: And actually Nat is on the leadership team with us. Doing that for two years now too. Yeah. Two years. Look at that. Small world. All right. So let's get back into it. Um, net today, I kind of want to touch on like why it's important specifically to have your contractor involved in the design process as early as possible.
Nick: Along like with your architect, when, when you have those parties working together, um, I think you're going to come with a better product. There's going to be, it's just going to work out a whole lot nicer. You're going to get more value for your dollar. I do know that some contractors, at least in the past.
Nick: Um, until we've gotten really strict here in Columbus. They tried to do all the design themselves. They didn't necessarily pull permits. They didn't necessarily do everything the way they should be doing. Um, and now that has changed. I think that relationship between The architect and the contractor is super important.
Nino: Yeah. If I can add on that, I will say that like a overall environment, especially in communication between design team and construction change, like an in last probably like a 20 years before you have two parties yelling each other. Now they forced to collaborate more often because the majority of project, uh, especially project bigger scale.
Nino: You're going to have a lot of design build, uh, opportunities and CM at risk, uh, types of contract that you have, then you have a traditional design bid build. So that's, that's like a crucial thing, even though the overall construction scene on, especially on a bigger level in Columbus. Still didn't fully like, uh, embrace construction, like contractor at risk, uh, type of the delivery method.
Nino: They still don't find them. They'll self really like, they're still asking to be handheld by the designer when they actually going through that process.
Nick: Well, everyone wants to point fingers if something goes wrong. So there's a, there has to be a collaboration. Otherwise,
Nino: you're all both going to look bad in, in, in eyes of client.
Nino: Sure. Yeah. So.
Paul: Yeah, especially if you don't have the collaboration, right? If you guys aren't talking, then it's, it's very easy for the contractor to tell his story, right? Point the finger back to you. So yeah, like Nino said, having everybody on board from the beginning is going to basically create a better product in the end.
Paul: And everybody's going to walk away a lot happier, especially if it's a challenging project where there's issues that come up during the process.
Nick: And it's also kind of a catch 22 too, because Nat, I know you can't give. Exact pricing on something until we have a full set of drawings and know the entire scope of work So it's kind of a work in progress at the beginning
Nat: I think one of the big things to remember though, is that the end of the day, it's about the client and what the client needs and wants.
Nat: And so we all have to work together to make sure we can achieve that vision for that, for the client. So by working with, you know, all three of us can work together, it makes life so much easier. There's less surprises. For the most part. All right. And you can usually get closer to budget. And if you do this before you start the renovation, oh yeah.
Nat: All right. It's huge. It's, we can take a look at something and say, wow, we want to take out this wall and put a beam in. Well, I can tell you roughly what that beam's going to cost.
Nino: And
Nat: that then will then tell the customer, Hey, yes, I do want to spend this extra or whatever X amount of dollars. So they now know that we can afford this in our budget.
Nat: But if they have drawings done and they're going to get in their head, all this, this. This renovation zone cost me X dollars and there's a contract I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna say, oh, I'm sorry I'm gonna crush your dreams cuz it's double what you think it's supposed to be. Yeah, so but
Nick: Ned I have this strict budget I have to stick to
Nino: That's great
Nino: One big things when you say like especially like a timeline And this is good having this communication, but quite often you're going to see like a client's changing their mind, you know, suddenly they get like, just realize maybe they Some new, like a horizon opens up and now they want to, maybe I should maybe renovate this space too, in addition to this.
Nino: So that's, that kind of,
Nick: that's exactly why we start with a design consultation. And that you bring me in with, for a lot of your clients, just for that. And even on smaller projects, because once you start diving into something, it's going to impact an adjacent space. And then if you're getting into this, you might as well do that.
Nick: So I know. Okay. Yes, it's going to increase the scope work. It's going to increase the budget. However, in the, if you're doing these projects separately, they're going to be more expensive over time, right? And as we move forward with inflation and material costs and everything else, prices are constantly getting expensive.
Nick: We, we just did a duplex together Nat, and you said something to me that I'm never going to forget. You said, because I was debating on redoing the siding for the whole house and it was what? 15, 000. And that's like, it's cheaper to do it now than it is in five years. And I'm like, actually, you're absolutely right.
Nick: That is, I don't want to have to worry about in five years, which will disrupt our tenants, our guests, all that, all those things. So we just decided let's just take care of everything and do it all.
Paul: Yeah. Speaking of controlling costs too. It's like if, if you start out with something and then in the middle of the process, you decide to add something else, exactly.
Paul: Then all of a sudden you need to factor in new things and reconsider. And again, it's, it's a headache on the contractor side trying to then. All of a sudden pivot and now you're taking on extra work and extra scope and that's where your cost will basically start to run away. He's, he's, he's planning.
Nat: I was literally just about to say that is that, you know, a project, let's say it takes six weeks and if all of a sudden we're changing up a major scope of work and now it's going to take eight weeks, there's a client behind you that I'm not calling to make that call and say, Hey, sorry, we're not going to make the start time for you.
Nick: Yeah, which you, which you can't always do. Right. Right. Um, that's why I think the design consultation is key. We just go over the scope of work. We talk about basic pricing. If your contractor can be with you during that consultation, it's great because now we bounce ideas off each other. You make some great suggestions and then you might say something that could trigger, you know, something else that we could do for, you know, less money or just in a better way, um, to add more value to the property.
Nat: Yeah. And having your contractor with you during the design, it helps because We're more in tune to the pricing of material right now, you know, I literally every day i'm looking at the price alone So I can tell you I have a project that we're about to start when I bid the project six months ago All right, the cost of the lumber package for this was about four thousand dollars Well, I just looked at it again and it's now up to forty eight hundred dollars So it changes pretty quickly
Paul: changes.
Paul: Yeah, I think that's one of the first questions that we always ask too, right? Even even if we there's not a contractor on board and we're talking to the client initially You First thing we ask, do you have a contractor in mind? Because again, we want to have all parties involved in the beginning conversations.
Paul: And, you know, we can give them an idea on price, but like you said, you're looking at this stuff every day, you understand the ins and outs of it. So it's like your input is critical, especially at the very critical,
Nino: especially in early design phase and selection of materials. You can go with the option B, which is actually maybe.
Nino: Give you a better aesthetics and better price. Sure. And because all the, because of the market value, and that's
Nick: why change orders are more expensive because it changes the schedule. It changes the budget to do more research for those pricings, those materials, timelines might be extended for different materials.
Nick: So if we can have all that worked out in the beginning, or at least a very good idea, um, it's going to cause a lot less headache, um, and keep costs down.
Nat: Well, and think about it too, is you're going to have a bunch of experts, right? Cause you're a contractor and design. We're the experts. We see stuff every single day.
Nat: So something that may has may have always worked in one unit may not work in another one. Correct. I may have seen that sooner than you may have seen it out in the field.
Nino: Or if it works on, on YouTube, on Tik TOK may not actually work in reality. So. Try to do by yourself kind of thing. So that's, that's, I think that's, that's a key.
Nino: That's a key in the construction.
Nick: So I want to touch on something else too. Um, now you, you do a lot of the work yourself. Um, which is, which I think is great. It has some negatives, negatives to it. Um, you, obviously it's harder to scale that way. You can, you take on less projects that way. But, um, I personally like it because you have a really good, your head's wrapped around every project.
Nick: You know all the details about it. Um, and you're seeing and solving problems that what other contractors that I've worked with in the past don't necessarily do.
Nat: I appreciate that. I really do. It's um, It helps too when you are going through a whole building process because now i've built the relationships with the subcontractors So they know what I expect for the job You know, I do know a lot of contractors.
Nat: They're like, oh they'll send their painters in or whatever and They don't even check on it. And then the client happens to go in and they're like, what happened in this room? This looks horrible. Well, that's why you should have a good contractor. Same with inspections too. When the inspectors come, you want to build that relationship so the inspectors can say, Hey guys, you can't do this, or you can do this, or we're going to make sure that this is taken care of before we pass you.
Nat: So yeah, it's, it's good to be on part of the project the whole entire time.
Nick: So I want to work design into this a little bit more. Um, I know. Obviously earlier in the project is better, but we do, we do have some changes in the field and sometimes it's something that you see that we don't see because you're actually, you know, you're, you're doing the work.
Nick: Um, whether it's moving a doorway or whatnot. Um, I know, uh,
Paul: Well, we don't have x ray vision, right? We can't, we can't see through things. So unforeseen conditions, sometimes it's just the unforeseen conditions. Like Nino said, it just takes that demo phase to open it up and actually see what's going on.
Nat: Yeah.
Nat: And I've got two great examples and Nick, you're going to remember both of these.
Paul: Are they, are they both his projects? Yeah, of course. Now
Nat: one, one's a positive and one's one of the ones that you just said, Paul, it's like you opened up the walls and you're like, Oh, we didn't see that. One of them was, we actually, and I don't know how to this day, I don't know how we missed it.
Nat: The two of us missed it. Plus our framer missed it is it was on a second floor and they had put an addition on at one point and the roof line came down and no one saw that when the roof line came down, the door literally came to the roof line for the back. There was no header,
Nick: no header. But someone built it improperly Yeah, so that's that's the surprise and
Nat: that's the phone call hey Nick I need another 12, 000 cuz we're gonna blow out the ribs
Nick: off the roof did a different instead of shed roof We did Gable style.
Nick: Mm hmm, which actually worked out because now I have vaulted ceilings. It's It looks gorgeous. It looks great. And
Nino: that's, that's like a good advice for all like investors who trying to like, uh, invest in their own house or like, uh, in rental properties to have contingencies in mind because this is construction and, and you usually like, especially in residential, you usually don't have any existing drawings, any like, uh, Vestiges and everything like what people put in this commercial.
Nino: I mean, many commercial
Nick: recently
Paul: as a city saving these digital because we're doing, we went digital even then they save it only to a point and then it's gone. It's
Nino: gone. I'm working for one of the biggest clients here in Columbus and they, they know that having very poor. Uh, existing drawings library and they just don't maintain it.
Nino: They don't have record and many buildings are built in fifties. So things change dramatically since then.
Paul: Yeah. I think that's why universities have like their own departments, right. That actually maintain some of those records.
Nino: So I have a question, you know,
Paul: obviously not everyone does that. So I have a
Nino: question for Nate and it's like, you know, construction work, it's not easy, especially having dealing with multiple people subs, you know, you never know what kind of subs, you know, you heard about these guys.
Nino: He's like, uh, all accolades and stuff and his performance is not that great. You have to face him and tell him like, Job is not performed correctly. What makes you moving every day and sticking in a construction road?
Nat: It's the people. Just absolutely. Like the people. Yeah. I mean, think about it. You think about my background, you know, I worked in distribution.
Nat: My job was people, right? Dealing with the people. It's talking to people and getting them to perform their best. So I've been very fortunate. In my career, even in, in the construction field, there's probably only one sub, maybe two that I will not work with again. But everyone else's come around to, Hey, this is what I need, right?
Nat: This is what our client needs. It's, it's about the client at the end of the day. It's not about their feelings.
Nino: It's almost like I cannot experience love if you don't give up a love. So it's like almost like a two way street that you have to. Can I use as as a logic and approach in construction that I think that's a very good point because Go ahead.
Nino: Well,
Nat: I was going to say, think about it. At the end of the day, you guys do these fantastic drawings, right? Yeah. So it's a vision and it's a dream, right? And then I get to look at these drawings and I get to talk to our clients because we do mostly all residential, right? So I get to talk to them. I, I get to see what their vision was, you know, I saw this on Pinterest or whatever.
Nat: So then when I put that all together and as a team, we put that all together and then I get to see the look on their face. Oh, yeah, it's like that's what keeps me going to see how happy people are And then when you get the professional photos, you're like wow I was part of that
Nick: now watches the hgtv shows and fast forwards it to the end for the reveal That really gets to them.
Nick: Yeah, so You're working you're
Nino: working with any other designers except arcfluence. So arcfluence So it's like you stick with the team the winning team. Why changing the winning team? Yeah, if you have a
Nat: formula that's working why change
Nick: it up now? You've actually taught me a lot of things and and yeah Mostly patience with subs.
Nick: I have a really high standard when it comes to how we do things. And I want to, I always wanted, I want to be the best, right? So, um, I think that having you kind of temper that, That and keep everything moving forward and and keeping those relationships strong has has really been beneficial for us doing many projects together
Nat: Yeah, I agree.
Nat: In fact,
Nick: we're looking for a project right now to to flip together.
Nat: Absolutely. It'll be a fun one, too
Nino: So you're gonna be investor in that project too? Absolutely. So,
Nat: you know, thanks to nick, you know, nick got me into coin and We have a rental property out in pennsylvania by default. It was our old house when we moved it was back in the Um The downturn in 2008 and 2009.
Nat: So we kept it, but then we also bought one here two years ago and it was because of Nick, we went to coin, we had a bunch of speakers and just getting into the real estate investing was. Unbelievable. So you meet so many folks and as a contractor, when you go to one of these investing groups and you say that you're a general contractor, I feel like I am Taylor Swift.
Nat: He's looking for the right, the
Nick: best contractor. Oh yeah.
Nat: You know something I wanted to touch on real quickly and talked about when we're tearing down walls and we find surprises. There's also a point where sometimes we can look at a plan and say, we all agree, this is fantastic. This is going to work out.
Nat: This layout is there. And then we actually go to build it. And it just doesn't flow. And Nick, I'm going to think about we were adding in a laundry room to a second story or the first was it first or first floor. I do a lot of laundry. Yeah, no, it was the duplex we're working on. We put a laundry on the first floor and when we got it framed out, we realized that it just took up too much room in the living room.
Nat: I see. So we took it down. I mean, we had a lot of work in there, but we took it down because it just did not make any sense. Even though on the paper it looked great, this was going to be beautiful. But in reality
Nino: it was a different story.
Nick: Yeah, I will sometimes walk on a project and be like, nope. Um, sometimes it's hard to gauge these things.
Nick: You know, we, we try to, when we're adding a half bath or, uh, you know, a laundry room, you know, taking it out of the basement, putting it on the main floor of the second floor, like we try to do all those things because it adds value to the property, um, as convenience and adds value no matter what you're going to be using for or selling.
Nick: Um, and, but. . Sometimes we really try to force it and when we realize this, we have to, we have to alter course.
Paul: I think
Nick: nine
Paul: outta 10 times, everything works out. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. Of course. We're I was 99 outta a hundred. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're engaging everybody. Okay. Yeah. Nine point. Anyway, we're engaging everybody at the beginning.
Paul: Right. We're all having the conversations. We have drawings that we look at together. We have design reviews and in the middle of the process, right. As well as at the end. So, I mean, there's multiple touches all through the entire design process before anybody swings a hammer. And you know, like you said, sometimes you get there and it doesn't work out, but the majority of the time it's, it's working out because we have that process in place.
Paul: And
Nick: sometimes we have that hard conversation with the clients where we're like, Hey, look. you know, having this whatever amenity in your space here is going to add tremendous value. Are we renting this? Are we selling this? We're going to have a conversation about the strategy. We've we already had had a conversation about their strategy at this point, but we're like, We're gonna be tight here, but at the same time we probably need to do this to get the value You're expecting to get out of the property
Nino: So you already mentioned that like your next step is gonna be investment like not only construction But now you're investing.
Nino: Are you also planning to expand your construction business like, uh, you know To just to grow operation and maybe get more into the commercial world. If you're not already in commercial world of the, of the,
Nat: that is a fantastic million dollar question there. You know, there's, there's part, I think we all want to be successful.
Nat: That's why we go into this business. It's not because we, we don't want to do it. Sometimes it is also about the quality and everybody is different. And I have, this is a fault of my own, but I have a hard time letting go of quality. And I want to make sure that if it has MGL on it, that it stands for quality.
Nat: It's just like, you know, with your guys in arc fluence, you guys want quality. You want to be known as quality. So I do have a trust issue. All right. I'll be self admitting about that. Yes, I would love to, because I know the product that we put out is great. I know that clients are happy. As I said, I haven't had to advertise in years cause it's, it's nonstop.
Nat: So do I want to expand? Absolutely. I've just got to get over that point of being able to trust somebody to life is a balance.
Nino: It's put a little bit things in the risk and, and maybe achieve greatness. You never know. Yeah.
Nick: Yeah, maybe we should partner up. I can, I can drive that a little bit. I can help push.
Nick: I think I think yeah
Nino: It's a two way street. Why not? Honestly, I mean something that tells you like that you pretty much Communicating all your work through the ARCfluence. I think ARCfluence should communicate way more through you because there is like a Two way satisfaction and the most important quality because competition is everywhere.
Nino: The quality is what, what client like, uh, appreciate on the end, even though he pays a little bit extra, even though he lingers a little bit longer, he always going to look at that. That's going to stay there for, uh, geez, 20, 30, maybe 50, maybe a hundred years. You never know construction costs. Probably it's going to stuff that we're working on.
Nino: That's what I like architectural. We're probably going to super like, it's, it's going to last longer. That's big on a last. Of course.
Nick: And you also have to look at the market too. Like Columbus is growing faster than any other city. And yeah, I mean, we just said we just had our last queen meeting. That was such a good talk.
Paul: Yeah.
Nick: I 28 billion invested here. Oh, they talked
Paul: about the whole region, like the 11 counties surrounding Frank, you know, and like Honda making additional investment and. Yeah, growth and EV infrastructure and spending on manufacturing. Yeah,
Nick: it's my point is besides Columbus being awesome. Yeah is There people are investing in their homes because the values they're now, you know real estate's going up.
Nick: So they have that have that birth To add value to their home. So they're willing so they're able to spend that money now and it makes sense so You know Contractors are now superstars. That is the thing to be right now. Um, so I mean, honestly, great architects to there's, there's a need for this in our industry.
Nick: And, uh, there are folks who aren't licensed and doing a lot of work here right now, which is a problem. Um, that's why I think it's important to ask your contractor if they're licensed, if they're bonded, if they're insured. Um, Ask for some references, go see them to, um, go look at some of the stuff they've done.
Nick: Exactly. Not all contractors are good at social. I like watching your fun, uh, but a lot of contractors don't show their work like they really could they should. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think when we have the most problems on a project, it's when there's a breakdown in communication between the client, the architect and the contractor.
Nick: Usually yes. And that's why communicating and staying on the same page and, and liking. Who you're working with is important. Um, I, I would strongly encourage everyone to interview their contractor, not just for their skill set, but are you able to work together? You're a designer, you're an architect, are you able to work together?
Nick: Yeah,
Nat: go ahead. I just want to go back to one thing when we talked about Columbus expanding and the awesome talk that we all participated in recently. There's going to be a lot more contractors that are coming in from out of state. So just be wary of that. Yeah. I mean, you have to think about, and the municipalities around here, every city is different.
Nat: The requirements for Columbus is different than upper Arlington, and, and some things are minor, but if you hire a local contractor, they're gonna have a better thumb on that. Oh yeah. They're also gonna have probably better deals that they know that they've built relationships. Mm-Hmm. . And then get turnaround.
Nat: I know for example, right now, if I need. Whatever a big lumber package delivered, my guy is going to get it to me the day that I need it versus if he doesn't have a relationship with the contractor. So just be mindful of that.
Nino: And they may even charge a little bit extra for these guys that coming out of the state.
Nino: So I think that's what these big players learn. Uh, and because I'm working now on a project with the team from Chicago. And, uh, I just see like a how we as a local guy were given more and more responsibility how the project goes on because they just cannot handle it. We are there like a, like a boots on the ground and they just like a see it like a, you know, Nina, can you just take care?
Nino: Take care of this. You guys doing an amazing job. Can you guys, because of our communication with the city, with our communication with the client, with our ability to respond very quickly, with our ability to visit the site right away, even though, because of all this technology and networking, you steal, like the meeting in a person and having your eyes on the site is priceless.
Nino: So, and especially as you mentioned, like having connections for, because You're going to see in construction today, doors, lead time, long lead time, windows, long lead time, this long lead time. So things that you keep hearing, it's a long lead time, long lead time, but your local guy as, as, uh, Nathaniel mentioned here is, uh, is, is, and his connections, his buddy, buddy connections are crucial.
Nino: So that I'm going
Nick: to ask you, uh, Right now what is your biggest pain point? Like what are some challenges you're seeing in the industry? When you're working with a client working on a project right now, what's going on?
Nat: Such a basic answer money funding, right? There's times when we'll be in the middle of a project And depending how big it is, you know, if there's a draw schedule Um, especially with investors, no offense, right?
Nat: Like we've we've all been through it as an investor where you're waiting for that next Check or that next draw to come out. So now you're trying to wait to get things, um, ordered and moved around because not all contractors are going to front that money up front.
Nick: Nope.
Nat: No contractors should front that money.
Nat: Right. And unfortunately there's a lot of people that think that they should. Um, but at the end of the day, they really shouldn't be. So I would say that's probably. That, and then just sometimes folks get decision fatigue, all right. And Pinterest and Instagram and all the social media out there, they all show whatever the closest trend is and people aren't sure if they want that or not.
Nat: All right. So I know that'd be a
Nick: good time to bring in your designer, your architect. Exactly.
Nino: So can you tell me a little bit more about, we talk about designers. Let's talk about you, can you tell me a little bit more about like a clients, like the owners of the properties, like uh, have you ever, have you ever met like a bad client?
Nat: Yeah, no, you know clients. No, I have not I've had clients where I've gone in and I've had a quote an interview with them You know, you're talking essential clients potential clients. Yeah, where you you walk in and my history is a general manager You know, I'm interviewing people all the time So I walk in I want to get to know that client and to see if we have the right vibe It's like that and anything that you do in life and you know I'm gonna take Nick as an example when we first met, you know, we just hit it off We were able to Chat freely and you start to learn more and more about that person and gets a better idea of where their vision is at And what and what they want to expect so no I don't take on Clients that I think that easily.
Nat: Yeah, you you walk in you'll have people say hey I want this addition on the back of my house for five or six thousand dollars. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's how the market now Yeah for you.
Nick: So not my Star Trek uniforms. Don't scare you away.
Nat: No, not at all because you know Being a star Wars guy, I always like to tease you a little bit about that, but no, not at all.
Nat: It's, this is what makes it fun. I mean, I think one of my birthday gifts to you is a, do you do cosplay? I haven't yet. I want to, I don't know. You only live once, Nat. I think, yeah, I never did cosplay. Yeah. All right. The cost of Darth
Paul: Vader's. Yeah. Yeah. Back to the, back to the conversation. So financially, right.
Paul: You, you mentioned somebody comes up with the idea. I want to pay X for the price or for the project, right? So that's the price they have in mind. Is there, so I know like I'm, I'm a always somebody that says you need to plan contingency, right? You need to plan for those unforeseen things that are going to happen.
Paul: It's not reality just to say it's X and that's it. That's the price through the whole thing. So material
Nino: can cost more than you expected. That's another thing. So in
Paul: general, what would you say like on your projects? Do you see as that kind of buffer window? Is there a certain percentage? Is it like 10%?
Nat: Yeah, so depending on the project if it's a large scale project, let's say we're gutting the entire house I'm going to tell you it's 20 because once you take out walls and you're taking down drywall You don't know what you're going to find behind there Could be an addition that wasn't put on properly and now you got to bring it up to code for smaller projects You know, um, we're doing a bathroom right now and it's usually 10 to 15 the bathroom that we just did the Poor lady's main line was clogged up.
Nat: It actually collapsed. So we had to jackhammer the basement and it was almost 3, 000. And that was, that's about 15 percent of what her total base or bathroom remodel was. So anywhere from 15 to 20%, because at the end of the day, if you plan for it and you don't use it, you're going to be happier versus if I say, Hey, yeah, it's a hundred thousand dollars.
Nat: And by the way, we need another 20. Well, I don't have that 20, 000, then your project's not getting finished or you're going to have to come up some creative way to get the extra money.
Nino: So what do you usually see as a, as a potential for unforeseen condition? If you may be touching the basement, if you may be touching the roof, touching the basement or the roof, is that like a usually when, when it starts like a red flagging or, or.
Nino: It doesn't matter. It's just like a, you walk the site and there is something that I mean,
Paul: everything is existing. It's the same when we approach a project too, right? If it's a piece of dirt that we're developing great, then we know everything, but I mean, it's impossible. Yeah, it's just, it's not possible at all to just know everything going in.
Paul: If you have an existing structure. Because through time things happen. So, so my concern
Nick: is, or my, my comment here would be, how do we prepare our clients for that? What, what does the conversation look like and how do you give that expectation?
Nat: Yeah. So one of the one things I do want to say is that. I have noticed that every time we go into an existing structure that has had an addition put on
Nino: I see that was like a later on added.
Nino: God knows there's no any Drawings about it and it's built completely god knows how I would say
Nick: that's a great thing Tip. I mean, if you live in smaller towns and Columbus used to be a smaller town, we didn't have all these strict rules of code. A lot of people did things on their own or hired people to do something for less because they want to maximize their value or they build it by themselves.
Paul: My buddy can do it for 5, 000. Yeah, exactly. I did.
Nick: I did my first house in Queens, New York. I did my first house. I actually demoed my basement concrete floor. Lowered the floor so we would have true eight foot ceilings. I mean, I I probably shouldn't even say some of this stuff But like I found some crazy stuff that I was It was completely over my head.
Nick: Um, but you learn, it's almost
Nino: like an Indiana Jones's approach. Where you gonna find out in your basement? I that You just made it, you just made it sound much better than, much better. You made it sound much better than what it actually is. Yeah.
Nick: Um, no, I, people DIY Listen, how are we gonna, how are we gonna do this kitchen renovation?
Nick: Danny's doing his kitchen right now. Yeah. He's getting help from his dad. I mean, you make it work. Because it does maximize the value that you're getting out of a project. But this is a
Nino: good point. Whenever I see like an addition that doesn't really match us, that's kind of a red flag right there.
Nat: Well, and today, in the age of the internet, everyone can become an expert by watching one three minute YouTube video.
Nat: That's what I
Nino: mentioned earlier on, yeah.
Nat: The problem is that codes change. You guys know this better than I do. Oh, yeah. Codes change literally all the time. So what might have been acceptable Ten years ago or heck even five years ago and I'll give you a prime example five years ago a sump pump Could go into a regular outlet.
Nat: Mm hmm. Now it must be a GFC. I outlet GFC. Yeah,
Nino: but
Nat: yeah be dedicated So that type of stuff happens all the time So if you pull up that YouTube video that was 15 years old and the guy looks really cool and he sounds really good It doesn't mean what he was doing then and he recorded
Nino: the video in a property somewhere in montana.
Nino: So good luck. Yeah
Nick: Don't make fun of montana. It is a beautiful state.
Nino: Oh, it is but a lot of people are different from columbus But different code. That's what i'm that's what i'm aiming to that's what that's different jurisdiction different code That's why we're coming back to that like knowing the local contractor knowing the local designer knowing the local code.
Nino: So it's very key
Nick: I think with the technology boom that we're seeing, I think a lot of municipalities, they're going digital. They're adopting other municipalities, um, standards and we're seeing the bar raise everywhere.
Nino: It is. I mean, on the end of the day, local code is based on IBC, which is international building code.
Nino: And every code or majority municipalities and estates, it's actually based on this code. The only, it's actually, there are some. Portion, they're being changed based on, uh, existing conditions or a trends or a market, uh, in that state. So it's,
Nick: and, and some contractors don't even need to be licensed. Like, yeah, yeah.
Nick: For
Nino: example, there are some exceptions just in Ohio code, uh, in order to boost like, uh, development. You know what I'm saying? Like in some residential code, there was like a, some things being omitted. Just because, or for example, if good example in IBC, if you have open garage, you still need the sprinklers in Ohio.
Nino: You don't, so that's like a one thing. So it's just like a, gives a little bit more flexibility because there is a demand for a housing. There is demand for a parking space. So, so that by luckily you're, you're, you're resistant adjusting this requirements.
Nat: Nick, I want to touch on something. You just barely mentioned there about a license and especially in the state of Ohio.
Nat: And this is going to be anywhere in any state so in the state of ohio The state does not have a general contractor license
Nino: All
Nat: right, so you'll hear a lot of people that will put an ad out Hey, I need a licensed contractor for we'll just call out the city of whatever westerville
Nino: Well,
Nat: westerville does not have a licensing program.
Nat: They have a registration that you must register To work in their city, but you don't have to take any tests You In Columbus, you must take a test to be a licensed contractor. So just be careful of that. If you're going to start your project, check with your local municipality to see that, does the contractor have to have an actual license?
Nat: Are they supposed to be bonded and insured and all that? You're going to want that anyways, but when it comes to licensing, it varies by municipality.
Nick: Yep. For example, when I lived in New York city, I was a licensed contractor. In New York city.
Nino: Did you take any tests?
Nick: I did.
Nino: Okay.
Nick: Yeah. It wasn't that hard.
Nino: I know, but still, I kind of like it having like at least one more,
Nick: I feel like also with my background in architecture and easy for me.
Nino: Yeah. But it's only reason I kind of like it, that being a little bit more licensed and a little bit more controlled only because of people thinking, seeing on the YouTube, they can do it by themselves. So you can start construction company. And. I'm seeing like, uh, I was witnessing some contractor signing for a very complicated jobs.
Nino: Never did before. It was a major hustle. It's a piece
Nick: of the puzzle, right? And I mean, sometimes, sometimes you don't have that experience and you just have to get there, right? Yeah, exactly. At the same time, when I'm, when I'm hiring a contractor, you know, I think rule number one, I need to be able to have a dialogue with them and get along with them.
Nick: Um, and then we talk about licensing. We talk about are you insured? Are you bonded? Where have you what? What work have you done? Can I see it? Can
Paul: I just pictures of it? Can I go there and see it? Yeah, I think that circles back to the beginning where you said it's it's critical to go and see the work that's been done Yes by the contractor by the architect.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, but I
Nick: started as a handyman too I mean, I wasn't I didn't just start doing luxury apartments You Um, I started doing like I changed light bulbs that a lot of those apartments had 14 foot ceilings and Some of the building managers didn't have you know They don't do this type of work for their tenants sometimes.
Nick: So they would hire me to come and change a light bulb. I'd bring my ladder in. I have a 2 million insurance policy and I'd pull bulb out, put a new bulb in. 150 bucks. Yeah, I think that's all these,
Nino: you know, all these regulations are important because tomorrow if Nat wants to expand his business. He won't be able to maybe have that luxury to like a personally interview all these people, you know, so then he has to have some kind of, uh, source, some kind of line of trust that if some person is licensed event through the, you know, certain like, uh, Control program or whatever that he has like a less concern to hire that guy You know what i'm saying or at least have like a first filter Then you're gonna come to me then we're gonna talk and this is my second filter and it's like, you know You check all my boxes
Nick: and I think when you're in larger municipalities, you're gonna have that.
Nick: Um, yeah You're also gonna spend it's gonna cost you right when you submit for permits in columbus. They just raise their prices again um permit inspections Um Everything just keeps going up little by little, but while some people say it is a, it's a money grab for the city, which honestly does help employ those professionals.
Nick: Um, it's also giving some reassurance about the quality that you're getting for your projects quality. That's a key, which is super important, especially when we're doing like a full gut renovation. If we're remodeling a bathroom. Yeah. We, we have a little bit more flexibility. I'm less concerned if you're tearing apart a house, you really need to do it.
Nick: Right. Right. You need to do it. Right. Right. You're gonna find out. A lot of the full guts that we do now, they've done bathroom renovations in the past. They've done kitchen renovations past and we're like, Oh, they did this wrong. We're going to fix it. So then we just, we just do it all right at that point.
Nick: Um, smaller projects again, like people DIY it and they. They don't always do it correctly, but those typically aren't as significant or problematic to the structure itself that a full gut renovation, a larger project would be, which is why when you do a larger scope, you need to have the right team in place.
Nat: And two, if you ever get a contractor that says, Oh, we don't need to pull permits, you need to stop and run away. Yeah, I mean, yeah, so they're yes, it was just over
Nino: promising stuff. Yeah, it can
Nat: be a hassle It's a day out of a bit out of someone's schedule, right? And that Inspector may find something that you got to go back and fix, but why hide it?
Nat: If you're doing good work, you're going to invite people to come in and say, please take a look. Because I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. I still make mistakes. You're not going to hide from that, right? There's times we make a mistake.
Nick: Also, if you are doing some type of tax abatement, um, which is, Which at least it was common in Columbus.
Nick: Now, now they're starting to cut back on that because of the tremendous growth we're seeing You need to document you need to pull permits and have that documentation in order to apply for those tax abatements So there's certain things that
Nino: some benefits that you can get as a
Nick: benefit to do.
Nino: Yeah,
Nick: absolutely And if your contract was familiar with that process all the better It'll take that burden off of you the homeowner and help facilitate that process All right, so I guess let's wrap this up with, um, what, what's some final advice you'd give to a client, a homeowner about construction design, building their team, working with their team?
Nick: Um, what would be some first steps and what would be some just good tips that you can leave them with?
Nat: Couple things one have a thick shell and patience. All right, because your project is probably gonna take longer than you expect
Nick: That's what you taught me Nick and patience
Paul: doesn't usually correlate that well, that's an ongoing process.
Paul: Yeah From the Will Smith movie the cop movie Where it's like, whoo sa. Yeah, bad boys. Bad boys. Whoo sa. That's it. Martin Lawrence. Whoo sa. Trying to calm down. Trying to calm down.
Nat: No, so having patience. It's going to take longer. Um, plan well in advance. If you know that you want something big by, you know, February, you better start planning the prior February.
Nat: Mm hmm. All right. Just get some time because drawings take longer than you'd expect. Sometime, not our drawings. We, we never, we knock them out right away. No, we, we, we actually really do pretty good plan
Nick: approval for through the city though, has been extended with new codes and other things,
Nino: just more clients.
Nino: They're dealing more, be dealing with more people than they usually deal before.
Nick: And
Paul: that, that's a good point. We try to have that conversation up front and the city can get overwhelmed with stuff too, where it's like, again, like. Even the contractor can be overwhelmed with schedule. The architect might have other clients that are lined up.
Paul: So like you said, the earlier you have the conversation, the better. So you can get things moving and hit the deadline that you want to hit.
Nat: Yeah. And then on the client side too, is if you see something that you like, let's say for example, tile, I know that might seem minor. If you like it, buy it. Yeah. Run across too many times where somebody has picked out something and it's, you know, four months later that they go to order and it is gone.
Nat: It's gone
Nino: and it's discontinued or God knows. Yeah.
Nick: Or, or they go with something that's, you know, 89 cents cheaper, which maybe is a few hundred dollars, um, after, you know, your square footage is calculated for a For something that they just don't appreciate as much. It depends, I guess it depends on the use.
Nick: If you're, if you're going to be renting it out, so be it. But if you're going to be living there, get something that really, truly inspires you. Exactly.
Nat: You know, it's your house. Unless you're going to sell it the next day. It is your house. Live in it and enjoy it. But back to the original question, you know.
Nat: The patients, the timelines and funding, make sure you are truly prepared for it and that the money is accessible because if your contractor has to wait for a check to order, whatever needs to be ordered, it's going to delay your project.
Nino: And yeah, that also includes some contingencies for unforeseen items.
Nick: Well said. Well, Nat, Nat, thank you for joining us today at the end. Hey, it took me around. We're going to, we're going to, it took me
Nino: 45 minutes to figure out. My brain is still sleeping. Luckily
Nick: your design is ingrained in you. Oh yeah. That's good. Things usually
Nino: can pull it out. I just
Nick: want to say thank you for having me on.
Nick: It's been fantastic.
Nat: I've really enjoyed
Nick: this. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming. Um, we're going to get, we're going to put your information, your business information in our show notes. Danny. So that you'll be, our guests will be able to, our listeners will be able to see that if they want to reach out to you with anything.
Nick: Um, if, uh, if you guys have any questions about your construction process, we should have some type of format where we can, where we can have that conversation too. So feel free to leave comments and we'll get back to you on that.
Nino: And if you have any questions, don't hesitate.
Nick: You guys can email me directly at nick@arcfluence.com
Paul: Yeah. You can also set up a design consultation through our website. And then similarly, we can connect you to, you know, whoever we need to connect you with.
Nick: And if you're here in Columbus, we can bring that along. Yep. Daniel. Nathaniel. Well, guys, thanks for listening. Um, again, uh, Nat, thank you for joining us and we are releasing our podcasts every two weeks.
Nick: So if you like what you hear, hit that like button, tune in, um, and we'll see you on the next one.
Paul: This has been the ArcFluence podcast. As always, you can get more information and additional content on arcfluence. com. Please subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review. We'd love to hear from you.