Navigating Short-Term Rentals
In this episode, Nick, Paul, and Nino join Sarah Karakaian, co-host of the acclaimed podcast Thanks for Visiting, to explore the realm of short-term rentals. Together, they share strategies for boosting cash flow, embracing continuous learning, and engaging hands-on in property management. Drawing from their collective expertise, they offer invaluable advice for property owners aiming to optimize listings and achieve rental success in today's dynamic market.
Nick: Welcome to the ArcFluence podcast, where we talk about how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. Today is episode three, and we have a special guest, Sarah Karakaian, who actually happens to be my wife. Yeah.
Paul: I was gonna say she's a very special guest.
Sarah: Add a few more very's there, Nick.
Nick: You gotta throw in the very, Nick.
Nick: Very special. All right. So today we are going to talk about short term rentals and how design impacts short term rentals. Um, our very special guest today is Sarah Karakaian, who I happen to know. Sarah, I've actually been a big fan of yours for about 20 years and, uh, I even asked you to marry me. You did?
Nick: Yeah. Um, why don't you tell us a little about yourself, your business, and what you're doing
Sarah: now? Yeah. So my name is Sarah Karakaian and along with my husband back in 2012, we purchased a home in Astoria, Queens, and I used to be an actress at the time in New York and I had no problem ever finding fellow actors who needed a temporary place to stay.
Sarah: I somehow bought this home with a 3 percent FHA down payment and the thought of renovating the basement and leasing it out to all of my actor friends whenever they would need some place to stay. But around the same time, a little app called Airbnb was becoming kind of popular in bigger cities, um, like New York City.
Sarah: And a friend of mine who's from Australia had been using it and said it was awesome. Like people would travel to New York, you know, place to stay. And he had been using it to offset his rent, like his entire rent. And I was like, wait a minute. That's insane. I worked in hotels and restaurants. I understood hospitality and catering to guests.
Sarah: So I asked Nick, I'll never forget Nick, you were, of course, watching some sort of sci-fi on the television and 100%. I sat down on a sofa, like the arm of a sofa. And I was like, what if we tried this app where people from all over the world could book our basement, we had just renovated it to stay with us.
Sarah: And Nick was like, absolutely not. Are we going to have strangers in our house
Nick: of having strangers coming into my house with my permission? Was ridiculous.
Sarah: Especially because the door that separated the little like en suite was an interior door from our kitchen. It was an interior door, so we could lock it.
Sarah: But I mean, an ax murderer could easily knock it down. Oh, an ax murderer could
Nick: easily just knock that down. No problem.
Sarah: So it took me some convincing, but. That obviously everyone listening can guess that I eventually wore him down and not only did that little, you know, it was a bedroom with a full bathroom, but there was no kitchen.
Sarah: So we just had like a refrigerator, a little mini fridge, a microwave, a coffee station, um, and the only way to get water was from the bathroom sink. And it had its own entrance though from the outside. So we put a lockbox on the door and Well before
Nick: you spill the beans about the numbers and what it actually did for us, we have Nino and Paul here again with us.
Nick: And I just want to get your guys opinion on what's your just, you've been around, you've heard about Airbnb over the last decade, right? But like If you've never heard of something like this before and you're, what, what would your be an initial thought about having people stay with you? I mean, when I
Paul: first heard about it, it's similar reaction, right?
Paul: Like we're going to have some strangers come in, like who knows, you know, what kind of character they are, how they're going to behave when they're right. Like staying at your house, they can be, you know, psychopaths or they could be great people. I mean, you just don't know what you're going to get, right?
Paul: It's, it's like a roll of the dice. So again, yeah, when I first heard of it. Obviously. Yeah. Similar to you. Like, really? Like you want to invite people in and have them stay with us? Like, so I
Nick: was sound of mind in my initial. Okay. I
Paul: mean, like, very much.
Nick: Yep. All right. So what, what happened, Sarah?
Sarah: So when we used to rent to our actor friends, they would maybe pay like 300 a month for that little en suite in the basement with their own entrance and they thought it was a great deal and it was great to offset our like, what, 3,200 a month mortgage?
Sarah: Well, once we Leverage the Airbnb app, and had, I think we had guests say that we had a three night minimum, They pretty much only stayed in the weekends at first. It covered our entire mortgage, and we would cash flow a couple hundred bucks. I couldn't believe it. We were living for free in New York City.
Sarah: We were like, this is incredible!
Nick: And months earlier, I was like, what are we going
Nino: to do? And plus, how much time did you spend in that house? Because you're guys being busy too. Right. What I'm saying is not like, oh, yeah, we have to endure these people. Because you're also in a city roaming around. Yeah.
Nino: While, you know, the house is paying by itself. It
Sarah: was great. We took a chance and it worked out and I think, you know, Nick's trepidation with guests. I don't want to get, I want this obviously to stay focused on design, but we took some time making sure the guests who we allowed to come stay. Were I don't like to use the word vetted but well matched to our property
Nick: Yeah, I mean at first we we definitely had conversations with a lot where they stayed Yeah, and most of them weren't from you know, they weren't local.
Nick: They were traveling from all over which was kind of
Sarah: exciting We accommodated I think like some 30 some countries in like the few years that we hosted in New York Can you can you a little bit
Nino: to explain that? I don't want to say quote, like a vetting process, but how, like how you filtering, I mean, we still have, you know, you have all kinds of people, right?
Sarah: Yeah,
Nino: they still do. So, exactly. So, so can you a little bit explain that process? Like, uh, for us that are not really into Airbnb, like how that process actually works? Is there any help on the software base or? You still have to do like, uh, interview or I know there is credit score. Is there like, uh, what, what kind of parameters you're using to kind of vet these
Sarah: people?
Sarah: Yeah. And a lot has changed in 12 years since we started. So, but back then there was a. I mean, even now it's not that robust, but back then, Airbnb did have a, the guests had to go through a verification process just to prove they were who they said they were. And if you can imagine, the app was new. So it's not like today where like you have past hosts get reviews of those guests.
Sarah: Like, hey, they were great. Or, hey, I would never rent these people again. Um, So, back then, no, they were just staying for a few days. So, you're not going to have them go through a background check. Like, that costs money. It takes time. Like, you have to have a process for background checks where you store their information securely.
Sarah: Like, it's a big deal. So, really, it's just kind of a gut feeling. Trust. Trust. Hence,
Nick: my apprehension.
Paul: Well, and then, I guess the other thing is, too, like, you said you were renting to people Right at first. And then you switched over to the Airbnb platform. What things did you do when you first switched over?
Paul: Like, did you have, you furnished everything, right? Like, was that part of the process? And then did you upgrade the door to be a more robust door or was it still just the flimsy, whatever? We
Nick: were young and broke, so no, we didn't upgrade the door, but we were excellent designers. So the space was well decorated.
Sarah: Yeah, we obviously we were hosting fellow actors, they would bring in their own furniture. Uh, but when we started hosting on Airbnb, yeah, we fully furnished it. That was the fun part, uh, figured out space when it wasn't a big space, think New York City. Um, we also are right under a highway, which for us, like it wasn't a big deal cause we're close to the transportation in New York.
Sarah: That's like gold. But for people sleeping at night that aren't used to New York City sounds like we had to figure out all of those things. Like how do we make their night? So you're getting
Nino: feedbacks from your, from your friends and how to adjust this space in order to prepare for the next step.
Nick: Right.
Nick: Which is why we always recommend you stay in your own Airbnb before you rent it out to strangers or have your family stay there to give you feedback. Right. Okay, Sarah. So let's, let's get into the design of things. I'd love to hear your thoughts on. You know, how designing an Airbnb specifically makes it, how can we cash flow more by being thoughtful with design and decoration?
Sarah: It's funny because I, obviously, I'm around when Nick is working on your, your drawings, and he's been getting more and more. Renovations that are supposed to be tailored towards guests staying and I look at it and I'm like, well, where is this is the biggest thing Where is the housekeeping closet gonna be like where is all the magic that happens between guests?
Sarah: Where's that gonna happen behind the scene? People forget about it. I think it's great that they put the guest's experience first, but we can't have a guest experience that's great if that in-between period isn't maximized and isn't thought about, especially because this isn't a hotel where you have a whole space in the basement for laundry and maintenance. So if you have the luxury, if you're going to be engaging with design professionals to restructure a space so that it works for a short-term stay, residential property, I want you to think about what happens between the guest stays. That way, you save money on housekeeping because it's not this uphill battle every time. The cleaners, all those people have what they need to do an efficient job so that they can set the stage for a great stay.
Nick: That, 100%. And I also think, you know, in terms of scalability, if you're having more than one short-term rental, we need a place to store products and supplies. And when you buy in bulk, you're going to save costs. So we've got to think about the space for that as well.
Nino: There's going to be like an enhanced janitor closet or something like that. It's going to have shelves for old products, but still, you're going to need the sink.
Sarah: Right. And whether or not you want your guests to have access to that space. If you have the luxury of locking it off from guests being able to use it, that's great.
Sarah: Not because, in the 12 years, we have some homes where we have the luxury of locking off a space and there are some homes that we don't. And the homes that we don't, I've never had a guest, like, jack all the toilet paper, despite what you might think. Most people are actually pretty decent. But it is nice if you can lock.
Sarah: No one wants to see the work behind the scenes. That's just for you and your team. So, but yes, and I know that some areas of the U.S., you don't have basements. And so then what do you do? A closet has to be robust enough to have the extra linens, the extra consumables. Maybe you're designing, like I know right now you're working with people who are designing multiple cabins at like a chunk of land, right?
Sarah: And so thinking about how that's, where is the maintenance person going to stay? Do you have an on-site person? So depending on how big or small your project is, to really think about the operations is going to help you, you know, quote, unquote, cash flow.
Nick: More. I love it. Um, what are your thoughts on that?
Nick: That first moment, that wow factor for guests, like how would you have that conversation with your clients on like, we need to create that moment so that we get that Instagram, those reviews, and this free advertising to make the property a home run.
Paul: And that's probably what people are most hung up on.
Paul: Right. Because it's like, it's the thing that they're going to post online, you know, like you said, nobody sees the maintenance closet, but it's very important. But I mean, like this wow factor, you know, that Instagram moment, like that's probably what people get hung up on the most, I would imagine. Right.
Sarah: Well, there's, you know, a whole hashtag now on the social channels, hashtag Airbnb and bust. They're saying, you know, we had this great run in 2020, 2021 with people not being able to stay at hotels because of COVID. So they were forced to stay at vacation rentals and short-term rentals. And so we were, you know, literally taking baths in money. It was a great time. Well, now I like that now that we're getting back to a more normalized travel economy where hotels are another trusted source for stays. The people who got in it, who just wanted to take baths in money, who didn't put the guest first, who didn't put that wow factor at the forefront, you know, yes, you, you're going to see that you actually now have to work for the money that you're making.
Sarah: So Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, has recently come out to say that winning the trust of travelers is now their main focus because people who stay in short-term rentals are saying in their reviews that when they go to check in, that is the "moment of truth" because they don't know what they're gonna get like you get at you know what you're gonna get when you stay at a Hilton or a Marriott or a Hyatt or even like a Motel six or whatever, you know, Western whatever, you know what you're gonna get and you and you're signing up for that like this is gonna be Economic stay, I may or may not have a hair in my bed, but I'm okay with that because I know how much it's going to cost.
Sarah: Or, I'm sitting at this Hilton and I expect X, Y, and Z. There's a brand recognition that's going on. You have brand standards and it is well known. Well, with Airbnb, the only brand standard they have right now is, we don't know if what we see online is what we're going to get when we check in. So that check-in process, that moment of truth, that is your make or break.
Sarah: Because if you break it, If it's not what you promised online, if you don't have that wow moment that Paul just mentioned, you're, they're, they're already reviewing your space. And if you get a review that is anything less than five stars, Airbnb as a platform, same with any other OTA, online travel agency, like Furbo, Birkin.com, they're going to bury your listing. These people spend, you know, millions and millions of dollars in their marketing. So to perform well on their platforms is essential to your business. So that check-in process has to be incredible. So again, if you're working with a design professional, from the moment they turn off the road to go up to your property, can they see your address late at night?
Sarah: Can they find the door? Is it easy to check in? Do they get that wow factor right away where like, they are so excited for their stay because you just punched them in the face with some amazing design element? Do they have a parking space close by? Yes! Like all, the entire experience of arriving is the most important part and it has to be every single stay.
Sarah: Because I believe, as you said, hotels, they're not just sitting there and it was like, Oh, okay. There's this new guy in the block where Airbnb, which is going to stay a little while they, they probably responded and they were like, okay, guys, we have to learn about this guys now and now we have to put our a game to, you know, Uh, regain that trust back.
Sarah: Hotels are, are using that to their advantage, like, hey, traveler, we have brand standards. You know what you're going to get. And at Airbnb, there's all these different hosts who we don't know each other. We're not communicating what our brand standards are and everyone's thought process of a combination is different, which that was, that's what makes Airbnb quite beautiful, but it's also the biggest detriment.
Sarah: So if you're listening right now and you're thinking about starting one, it's that entire, uh, first 10 minutes of arriving. From pulling off the road, to parking your car, to walking to the front door, to opening the door, to walking through the home. Like, that's it. Lights out if you miss that opportunity.
Sarah: Now, we
Nick: kind of, I inherently just have that conversation with our clients because it's, it's our business. But what would that conversation look like with a designer who maybe isn't upper, you know, in the short-term rental space? Like, what would you suggest to people? What questions should they ask about to make that happen?
Sarah: Right, I mean, to ask your design professional, like what a client should ask a design professional who maybe doesn't have experience designing short-term rentals or hospitality.
Nick: You consult with. You know, your clients on how to make a space more accommodating and set that up. A lot of times it's, it's after the fact.
Nick: Um, so I'm sure there's things you're like, well, I wish we would have talked the architect about, but I mean, what does your conversations look like
Sarah: then? Yeah. I would say everything that we just covered, right? Like ask your design professional, whether it's interior designer, architect, or whomever, like, You get so excited and lost in what kind of couch you're going to get or what the pillows are going to look like or the tile selection.
Sarah: That's all important. But what about those things that really require a lot of planning? And Nick, you know, you and me are setting up a short-term rental right now. And like, we were so busy with our full-time jobs that you and I, after doing this for 12 years, missed some opportunities.
Nick: The TV outlet is too high.
Sarah: You know, so it's like.
Paul: and I think that's where having another pair of eyes on it, right? Like you mentioned earlier, um, as we were talking here, you know, have a family member come out and kind of take a look at things, have a friend come out, take a look at things, stay yourself at the place, right?
Paul: Because like you said, you're going through a list of all these different items that as you arrive, where do you park? How do you get from your car to the door and the door to
Nino: pretty much can develop like a loan standards and guidelines. You know what I'm saying? That you can. I hate to use the word checklist, you know, but yeah, like I won't be bad, uh, to start like gathering all these thoughts on a paper, on a document and just because we are as a human people, we all get attracted to the spot and forget all these.
Nino: A boring stuff that are actually crucial.
Sarah: Yes, very. And so I would say even like, yes, staying at your short-term rental once it's done and making sure like all the little, um, those little moments are working and, and actually sitting at your laptop on that desk actually works. The sun isn't glaring on the laptop.
Sarah: That stuff, yes, those are easy changes. So I even say, quote-unquote, stay at your short-term rental on the, uh, On the architectural drawings of your place like if we're designing it like okay start at the street and on that piece Of paper a walk down. Okay. Can you see if it's if it's one in the morning?
Sarah: You've been traveling your flight came in late. Can you see the address? Are there homes next to you? Well, they know which one is yours. Do you need to put like some sort of name on it? Okay. Now we're at the front door. What does that look like? Like you kind of have to act through it in your mind on the paper 100 percent and and and work with your design professional and ask those questions then
Nick: Yeah, I mean, when you're walking in, do you have cover from the weather?
Nick: Do we have like a back awning or a front awning? Like, where are they entering from also? And then like, what does that experience look like? And then when you step through the door, like, what do you see exactly? Is getting accommodated, turning the lights on and all that comfortable?
Sarah: Does it make sense?
Sarah: Right. If you're in a cold area or their place and you accommodate, this is the biggest thing. People want to accommodate a ton of people because they think they'll make more money. And you, and you probably will, right? Because if you have enough square footage, you're going to have enough beds. My business partner and I call it heads in beds.
Sarah: You know, people are so concerned with throwing a bunch of heads in a bunch of beds, but then they have a table setting and a space set for four people and you want to sleep 14. And it's like, okay, you haven't thought that through, so talk to your design professional about that. How many people are you going to sleep?
Sarah: They want to all, they're all coming together to spend time together. Where can they all sit down and share a meal and break bread and hang their coats up? Let's say you're in, you know, you're in a ski town and you're accommodating. ski travelers, like where are their skis going to go? Where are their winter coats going to go?
Sarah: Where are their boots going to go? All 14 people. And think about that experience. So really dial it back into who you're, who is your avatar? Who is that guest that you really want to attract? Because they are the perfect fit for your space. Now put yourself in their shoes and there are 13 other guests that they're asking to come and spend money your place.
Sarah: And have, in your mind's eye, go through that experience. But not just the perfect, like, setting of, like, the sun shining and all that, but like, no, they spent all this money and actually there's a blizzard and a snowstorm. Exactly. Can they still have a great time in your place? Some of these are luxuries that we don't all get when we're starting a short-term rental, but if you can really think to that depth, you're gonna have a much better time and a much longer, you know, business for yourself and your family if you're putting all this effort in.
Sarah: Absolutely. Absolutely. You might as well do it right the first time
Nino: because what what is actually shortcoming can be your benefits because as we talk Like we already know For hotels, this is our branding how this is how we look look alike and all these brands are same all around the world You know, it's almost like an industry You know, uh, cookie cutter.
Nino: But here we actually selling the unique experience because each of these Airbnbs be something, its own character, like a personality, its own personality. And that should be taken as, uh, as, uh, prones. Uh, against the, like, all these big brands, you know what I'm
Nick: saying? Right. I gotta be honest with you too, it's like, those are the things that make architecture fun.
Nick: Yeah! Like, I remember, like, these projects give me life. Because when we're designing, uh, you know, affordable housing, or, not, I don't even want to go down that path, but like, when we're doing something that's very basic and very specific, um, for, Like maybe a starter home or something. I don't know. Maybe I'm going, maybe I'm going.
Nick: No, I see what you're
Nino: saying. It's a customization. Yeah. It's like getting your own tailor doing the suit just for you.
Nick: I suppose the best way to say it is we have the opportunity to be a little more risky, um, to make that impression. Right. It's a little bit more thoughtful, but
Nino: also I like Sarah's approach when she said avatar, you know, you have to go you have to experience that that that space and also one things I'm recently watching the show called mentor pilot and when he actually going through all these like accidents and how people like it just Forgetting this procedure that's becoming annoying, you know, you know, I have to check this.
Nino: I have to check that. I have to check this light. I have to check that because you just make a, like a, make a shortcut. Yes. You can actually put yourself in a danger because it may not be sunny day and be rainy day. The person can be already annoyed by flight being delayed and because I didn't go through this checklist thoroughly and nicely.
Nino: I may have bad experience even though my actual rental is amazing, but his day is bad. You know what I'm saying, you
Nick: know, I love how you always reference a TV show on our podcast. I just started watching for all mankind. Yeah, it's really good. for sharing that with me last podcast.
Paul: Um, but yeah, speaking to experience, I guess one thing that popped in my head that you could probably have the conversation with the design professional on.
Paul: I mean, we don't always necessarily do it, but even like, again. We have these tools at our fingertips to basically create like a 3d view, right. To help you understand and experience what the space is, even before you lift the hammer up to take the first swing. Right. So, I mean, it's like, even that can be part of the initial conversation with the design professional.
Paul: It's like, you know, can we have some elevational views, some 3d perspective views, right? Like I want to. Try to get my head wrapped around this as much as possible. So if you're really new to it and you have no idea what you're doing, then ask the architect to spend some additional time, spend a little bit of additional money to get some of these additional items, you know, in front of you so that you can really start to feel what the space is going to be before you even.
Paul: Get to that point of, you know, doing the work.
Nick: Yeah. Because at the design review, we can then sit down and see like, Oh, that's a perfect spot for some type of, um, uh, feature wall where we can maybe have a local artist come in or just do something special. That's going to be like. This is amazing. I got to take a picture of that and share it
Sarah: or Nick and Nick always I don't understand space in my head.
Sarah: Like I don't know how you guys like you you tell me a hundred square feet I don't know what that means. Like I have to I have to be in a hundred square feet for me to understand it So I very much rely on Nick to help me see like, okay, Nick, is this gonna be yes I can take a tape measure out but if the space doesn't exist yet or a moving walls like those elevations like listeners if you Invest in that.
Sarah: Like I'm telling you, to get into the short term rental game is a lot of upfront costs. From your design professional, to the contractor, to the furniture, to all the little bits and pieces that you haven't even thought about yet. So if you're going to get into this, you better be into it for a while. I was, you know, 20 years that you can obviously run your numbers, make sure all those make sense.
Sarah: But to put money in the planning phase, I would say is the most important invest in elevations, invest in working with your design professional to really understand what that space that you're accommodating for your, for your vision, make sure it makes sense. And like it fits because putting wallpaper on a wall with a neon sign, you can do that.
Sarah: And your architect could help you like, Take that actual material and put it on the wall and make sure it's gonna fit with all those things and I'm telling you Investing in that is a no brainer.
Nick: Well, one of the things we do too. I agree a hundred percent We we've started putting furniture like And like scaled furniture and all of our drawings now because we want to see how it plays out at the end.
Nick: And I know, uh, last year even, we weren't putting like, uh, side tables for the bed. Um, and, you know, we put a king size bed in this, oh, this will fit a king size bed. We get it in the space and We don't have nightstands or we, or we just have one nightstand and it's not balanced or, you know,
Nino: something else.
Nino: Or your closet door is hitting the nightstand or the
Sarah: foot of the bed. Oh my God. Yeah. Have your architect help you, the door swing? Like yeah. Should you do a pocket door or have fun with, with the, with a bar, with a pocket, a barn door. You know what I mean? Like. How the door swing open. What is it going to be like, let's say you have, let's go back to that 14 person example.
Sarah: What is more, what are mornings going to be like for those 14 people when they want to take showers?
Paul: And I think this is where you lean on your design professional, right? Because like you said, Sarah, it's like understanding a space might not be the best for the person that's getting into this. So it's like, great lean on the design professional.
Paul: Who's going to have a better understanding of what that space is, right. And how that space is going to function and really rely upon them to basically lay everything out appropriately. I mean, I can remember there's times where. Or people are like, Oh, this is going to be a bedroom. And we're like, really?
Paul: It's barely going to be a bathroom, you
Nick: know? So I'm glad you kind of brought that up because Sarah, what, what's our, kind of our new policy for beds, the baths, like how. Or the ratio from beds to baths.
Sarah: I mean, to have a, every bedroom to have a bathroom, especially in short term rentals is If you have that luxury, now let's say the location that you've got is like next level, lights out.
Sarah: You get to compromise and other things like that. People are willing to compromise because of the location that you're offering. Or some sort of amenity, like we used to manage a property that has a darn waterfall that in the middle of Ohio, like they're, they'll be willing to take some sacrifices there.
Sarah: But if you don't have that and, and literally your spot, your place is the destination of a bedroom and a bathroom on suite is, is crucial.
Nick: Yeah. So I just remember like when we, we first moved to Columbus and we started managing for others, um, we had a four bed, one bath. No,
Sarah: no, no. And I'll tell you listeners like it didn't make money because Because people would figure it out.
Sarah: They think about that. You know, I don't want, they're coming to meet their in laws, like they don't want to share. Yeah.
Paul: Or they stay there one time and then they give you a terrible review and they never stay there again. And yeah. And also
Nino: for design professionalists, it's really good to listen to Sarah because you're not always going to be able to have a space.
Nino: You know, to accommodate all this stuff. So you have to prioritize. Yes. So that's like a, that's one things that you have to talk to someone who has a lot of experience in Airbnb to get that list of what is more important and what you actually like a swing at the customers your, your own way. Because Yeah,
Paul: a lot of our spaces we go into our existing, right?
Paul: So let's say the exact situation, right? We have four bedrooms, one bathroom. So what would the suggested layout be? Are you going to say, add two bathrooms and take out one bedroom so that you have three beds, three baths, something like that? Is that what the suggestion would be? We have
Sarah: a luxury now of going to data.
Sarah: So what I would pull up is this. What does a 4 bed 1 bath make? What does a 3 bed 2 bath make? What does a 2 2 make? And maybe, depending on the construction cost, maybe you'll actually make more money with a 2 2 than a 4 1 because also, what is parking like? Like, can you accommodate, let's say there's four bedrooms, that means you could potentially have eight people.
Sarah: Can you have, you know, four cars, six cars, depending on how people are coming? You have to think about all that because I will tell you it will not make money. You will be found out and reviews will happen and then people stop staying. Or you get people who are like just, you know, two, three, four people end up come staying and they can't pay.
Sarah: The nightly rate that you want to have because you're in your brain, you want to accommodate eight people.
Nino: It's a hostel. It's no more cute. Correct. Nice. Right. You know, Airbnb. You know what I'm
Nick: saying? And say we did, say we did want to add bathrooms to that four bedroom, one bath, one sacrificing one bedroom might.
Nick: Not be enough. So maybe we're now sacrificing part of the entertainment spaces or something else that's going to impact the way the property functions Right, so you need to be thoughtful about everything
Sarah: everything what I want to bring up a new topic to that so I just my Nick and I are potentially looking at some land and so Our expertise is in the, um, the, or the metro markets, right?
Sarah: And so when it comes to urban or camping, like I needed to get more educated. So I went to a conference and they were talking about whether it's RVs or tents or cabins or just a new build in general, how you have to think about being accessible. Especially if you have just one property. And so a lot of times we don't think of ourselves as commercial operators, right?
Sarah: You're thinking, oh, I'm just, I'm just an Airbnb. I'm just a residential. But as the vacation rental market matures, it is in its infancy right now. Yes, vacation rentals have been around for hundreds of years, but the professionalism of the vacation rental industry is becoming huge. And so what do I mean by accessibility?
Sarah: Like ADA standards. You have to be able to accommodate a wide spectrum of, of traveler, especially if you want a more of a professional setting, several cabins or, or tents or things of that nature. People in wheelchairs or with different abilities need to be able to access those places. So asking yourself those questions too, if you're not a professional, your city code and what you need to be able to do so that you are not opening yourself up for liability and you'll definitely need an architect to help you with that.
Nick: are the duplex that we just that we're opening shortly here and furnishing currently, um, the lower unit. We did our best to add a lot of accessibility elements. Um, do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Sarah: Yeah, sure. So there's actually a woman here in Columbus. We're really lucky who this is what she does.
Sarah: She, she had an accident. Um, back in the day, and she lost the use of her legs, and so she's been in a wheelchair ever since her early 20s, but she's made it her life mission to share with people that being, she calls it universal design, I don't know if that's a, is that a, okay, um, universally designed is actually.
Sarah: People get this vision in their head where it's like this unattractive approach to design and it doesn't have to be and so she's done a really good job of sharing with you like if you just move where the outlets are and the and the Light switches are and lower the countertops and have just a little just a little it really is just a little or how beautiful a ramp can be or how you can take stairs and and Offer a second way to to enter a space whether it's a ramp that you bring out and put on top of like there I mean she opened my eyes up to just all these other ways to think about Being accessible and
Nick: appliances like the instead of having your oven door swing Traditionally down and out right ovens that open sideways, right?
Nick: No, and yeah, it's it's it's kind of a lot of being you can't even tell in most cases No, like
Sarah: and it's and it's not just people in that are in wheelchairs. It is people that are on the spectrum like people who, you know, different patterns and sounds and things of that nature, um, affect their stay. And I will tell you that if you can, um, Incorporate some of these elements into your rental on the OTAs, on Airbnb and Vrbo.
Sarah: You can check more boxes, which means you're just opening up your marketplace to more people and you're standing out because I'll tell you, people are not thinking about this. And so you're moving, you're leaving out a whole, you know, a huge audience, huge, huge
Nino: audience because a universal design is not your wheelchair.
Nino: Sometimes you just like a. break your, you know, leg or injure your, uh, ankle and you're still disabled. But most importantly, if you look in demographics, I mean, who are the, uh, demographics that has the most time, probably the most money, uh, are the elderly. Oh, absolutely. They love to travel. They want to spend this like, uh, you know.
Nino: Uh, you know, their retirement, uh, traveling around. They spent their whole life
Nick: working
Nino: and they want to make up for it. Exactly, and they want to make up for it. They have the money, now you're pleasing all these new audience into your Airbnb because you're making universal design.
Nick: And they want more than just a room.
Nick: They want to have a kitchen. They want to have a place they can invite their, you know, their family over if they're visiting family.
Nino: And, and location of the outlets, heights of the outlets, oven, how they open, shower access, and all this fun stuff. I mean, Sarah is just bringing really, really important point, which is how the commercial texture is getting a step into the residential.
Nino: And I believe you guys that even could. It's already started recognizing a transient housing. But it's going to just, and we're seeing that in Columbus, it's just getting more strict and strict, starting from zoning to the building permitting process. You will see that the advice of the good professionalist who has knowledge in Airbnbs is crucial.
Nino: Well, and
Paul: this is what I was going to jump in and say as well, a lot of these places are residential properties, right? It's not commercial properties, but when you go into there, I mean, you really, again, especially if you're just getting involved in this for the first time, or you're thinking about doing it for the first time, you know, you might not have a good idea of what is needed to be done to that residential property to.
Paul: You know, pull in some of these commercial aspects or some of these accessibility access or universal design elements, right? So it's like, again, having some assessment done by a design professional or working with a design professional on those items is going to be hugely beneficial for you because, you know, a residential house is just not designed to that level, to that standard, and then it's going to create a bad experience for your user if you just push forward and
Nino: open the door.
Nino: Or do you have multiple units soon as you cross that number of three? You're automatically goodbye residential code. You're in commercial code. So, so that's another thing that you have to be careful like, especially now we want to, you know, you purchased the giant house, but you will like to have bigger return on it.
Nino: I have to like divide that on four units. Well, there we go. Now we in four
Nick: units. I'll tell you what we've been working on a couple of different triplexes and now they're even getting. You know, it's still considered residential as a duplex, but they have more restrictions than a duplex or a
Nino: single family.
Nino: They will adjust the code accordingly, believe me. And zoning, zoning because of this, uh, upcoming fight between Airbnb and hotels will try to limit Airbnb in certain neighborhoods. So there is a lot of things that you have to know in advance. You know, you may actually purchase the house in order to have Airbnb.
Nino: And you hire the architect or, or you design by yourself, you build this beautiful house and guess what? You cannot Airbnb it because zonings won't allow you. So that's where you have to have, uh, that in front knowledge before you start spending
Nick: money. Well, that more reason why universal design is super important because now you can still cater to a large number of people.
Nick: Yes, audiences.
Nino: Whether it's
Nick: midterm, longterm or whatever.
Sarah: I think that's a great, I'm just going to put you guys on the spot. You should create on your website some sort of download that helps someone who might want to get into short term rentals or hospitality, what a universal design, um, things they should think about.
Sarah: I think that would be great. I think we can,
Nick: uh, Get that put together. We'll do a one sheet on universal design. We'll have that in the link. Danny will help me with that. Yeah, it's actually,
Nino: I think entire term was coined by the one of the architect. I'm guessing he's from California who from himself suffer from polio.
Nino: Oh, wow. And that's how he actually start propagating this, uh, Universal design. You know, you always learn on yourself, like that's when you start thinking, no, I cannot bend like a plug my like a phone or charge it. I need to be a little bit higher. So that's how entire system like a universal design philosophy started
Nick: that I actually took you Nino into our duplex the other day.
Nick: Um, I'm curious, did you notice like our title selection and how we made, we were very specific on what we chose and what are your thoughts on that?
Nino: No, I, uh, first, I think what is important and that's what people, people, it's not just a visual and that's what, what Sarah mentioned just like a second ago, it's a visual, it's a, it's a hearing and it's touching, texture is really important because you also have a people with, uh, you know, uh, I won't say that the people that have problem with the vision, but they have like, uh, you know, problems, like they cannot really perceive the space the way or like, uh, the, the, yeah.
Nino: The intensity of the light can actually disturb them and everything, but I like the fact that you're actually Treating the spaces especially one. I love it. I'm gonna mention it at beach property because has a lot of character into it a lot of materiality That gives you, it still looks modern, still looks like a slick, how do you say it, slick, but a nice rich materials, sometimes competing with each other in the right moment, right, like that first impression.
Nino: Because sometimes design is like a sitting in the theater and, and, and watching the good play needs to have like a beginning needs to have that, like a, you know, like a storytelling. It has to have that like a beginning, then it has like wow effect, and then it has to have nice ends. Mm hmm. It depends what you're trying to achieve.
Nino: So every design is some kind of storytelling. And that's what I like about your design because Especially in the beach, the way, when I'm entering the house, now there is that camera. But next to that camera, there is actually modern, uh, sophisticated technology. There is a gas lamp that kind of bridge the, like, a gap between different, uh, generations.
Nino: You know what I'm saying? The youngster. There's a gas lantern. Uh, Ederly, there is this new piece of technology that's your reality, you know, you can like it or not, but that's how it is. And I like that in that property is how you guys merging this together. It's something for everyone, right? Exactly for everyone, but also you did not lose the original character of the, of the property.
Nino: And that's another important thing in that really packed neighborhood. You still have your backyard, nicely fenced, it captured that atmosphere of that, of that neighborhood. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's like a brick entrance that your father helped build. It is beautiful how it ties up into the backyard, of course.
Nino: But going
Paul: back to experience, right, so if you go into some property that you have. You don't want to go in and completely wipe the slate clean and get rid of all that character. You're going to take away from the property. So it's like, again, working with whoever it's like, obviously Nick and Sarah, when they were doing Beach, you know, they've had plenty of experience and they were really thoughtful about what they were doing.
Paul: But again, it's like, you don't want to completely get rid of everything because you lose the balance. You lose the nod to history. You lose the character, right? If you just wipe everything away and try to do everything with this modern touch.
Nino: Material selection in both properties that I, that I saw the other day was phenomenal.
Nick: And that just happens to be something we can help our clients with as well.
Nino: Light fixtures. I was blown away.
Paul: Yeah, I would say the light fixtures are great.
Sarah: I will say real quick too, like, Everything we've been talking about today, maybe you're not, maybe you're not like, I don't want to be involved in short term rentals, right, or in Airbnbs.
Sarah: But all of it also, I know a lot of us will have a parent that lives on property, or in a carriage house, or an additional dwelling unit. And so all of those things you can implement into your Your own home still matter. It still matters. Maybe you want to age in your old home. So now you don't need those things, but someday you might Potentially you could have a child who has special needs So I think and this whole conversation really is about being thoughtful about all types of humans all types of abilities And how can you incorporate maybe you can't do everything but really be thoughtful about how your family dynamic is going to change how it's how it how Something might happen that you didn't even think about, but if you're designing your forever home or a for a while home, you might want to be extra thoughtful about all of those things.
Nino: Do you sometimes like, uh, like a shoot for like a target audience? For example, if, uh, your Airbnb is close to the hospital or university or like a, do you then in that case start targeting like the specific
Sarah: audience? That is a big reason why we made the duplex accessible on the first floor, because we are a stone's throw from Nationwide Children's Hospital.
Sarah: And so I thought, you know, there's got to be families who have to unfortunately stay near the hospital for long periods of time. Maybe their kiddo is, is, has special needs. I don't know what those needs might be, but how great would it be like, maybe they have to go in for treatment. Um, maybe they need to be nearby for a while or the nurses.
Sarah: That or the medical professionals need a place to stay nearby. So what are they going to care about? Maybe we can accommodate them in the upstairs unit. So, uh, we have rentals in downtown Columbus and so we get a lot of business travelers. What do they care about? You know, and, um, what don't they care about?
Sarah: So yes, you have to, you know, you might have a guest who comes who's neither of those things. They still chose your place and they're a great guest and so great. But you really have to focus on who are you talking to, who, that will help you, uh, really make your initial question is like, how can we maximize cash flow?
Sarah: I don't care what industry you're in, you need to talk to one person at first. Talk to one person. Get super, instead of like wide with your net, you need to go narrow. Eventually you can widen your net, but if you can figure out how to, cause this, there's a lot of people in this world. So if you can go really niche, they say the riches are in the niches and they say that for a reason.
Sarah: So that's what, and it also makes it easier for you as there are so many different design elements you could, you can do and implement. But if you can focus on name that person, you know, maybe it's Susie who has the child who is, is on the spectrum, design the place for Susie and her child. And what, what, what decisions would you make and then go from there,
Nino: especially now when you have access to information so easily, you know, And one things that you mentioned, and especially for our customers, maybe like, or people that would like to jump to Airbnb and now listen to our podcast, there's so many things to think about.
Nino: Maybe I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay away from it. You mentioned one important thing, which is constant education. Can you say more about that? How are you educating yourself? I know you have multiple Airbnbs. There are trends in this crazy market that constantly swinging. You're changing. People's getting more spoiled.
Nino: Of course. Yeah. They always pushing for more. So how are
Nick: you educating yourself? This actually might be a good time for you to mention your company. Thanks for visiting. Yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. So, um, it's funny because I am multi, uh, passionate. Um, and so I used to be an actor. I mentioned that and now I'm. All in on short term rentals and becoming an expert in that world because between being an actor and where I am now, I was doing staging, and Nick and I were flipping houses, and we were managing other people's flips, and we were, we were handy people for a while, installing people's baseboards for them, like, in the middle of New York City, like, That's another life.
Sarah: We had some, like, Like personality situations we had to figure out. And what I learned is that I wasn't becoming an expert in any of those fields and it was frustrating because I was letting my, our clients down one way or another. And so deciding on being in this, again, I was rich as in my niches, but now even like you said, you know, like my experience is my perspective, but I will be a better educator if I can get other people's perspective who are also experts in my field.
Sarah: So reading other people's books. listening to other people's podcasts. We have our own podcast. It's called Thanks for Visiting, and we interview hosts. So other people who do what we do, we interview people who are even niched down even further. Maybe they're experts in pricing for short term rentals, experts in collecting emails for short term rentals and building your email list, and hearing their stories and being a student all the time.
Sarah: Right? Knowing that I don't know everything is the best way to just strengthen my knowledge and my perspective. This perspective is reality, but if I'm going to be helping other people, I need to be able to put different hats on and, and think of different, okay, but if I'm in this perspective or think about it from this way, they may not care about that.
Sarah: So, the more you can just listen and soak in and get really narrow on your focus in that season of your life, I think it's going to help you.
Nick: And I can't even tell you, like, I do this. It's so funny. Um, the amount of things I learned about safety over the last year and a half, two years, we're now incorporating those details into all of our rentals and even the drawings that we do for our clients.
Nino: Be a student all the time. All the time. All the time. That's because the moment we left college doesn't mean that we have to study anymore. No. We have to study. You're just getting started. Today's world when information is there, just take advantage of the fact that information is there. Can you imagine just like 50 years ago in order to obtain no internet, no podcast, no, you know what I'm saying?
Nino: You have to go to the book and, and, and you really have to be, what's a
Paul: book?
Nino: Do audiobooks, exactly. But like, you have information area, just don't read the titles. Just like, uh, get into it and, and, uh, focus and be ready to learn.
Paul: Yeah. I was just going to say, I mean, it brings it right back to, like you said, relying on others and kind of seeking advice from others.
Paul: And you're just always pushing that continuous kind of improvement mindset, right. By not just looking to yourself and looking to what you think. But seeking out others and seeking out others' opinions and thoughts and advice and so forth.
Nick: And so forth. Consult your team. So like, I mean, you have to have a team around you and you have to consult with them.
Nick: I still encourage our clients to have their contractors come with us to the design review because I want their input, their perspective. You know, we, I
Paul: mean, we may design it, but we're not building it. So you're absolutely right. I
Nino: see, uh, especially today in the industry, I'm, I'm, I'm not only like, uh, like working on, uh, residential, but in different fields, I'm seeing a lot, especially if the subject is more complicated, such as the medical field, I see a lot of design-build contracts being written today than the traditional, like, design-build.
Nino: So yeah, early warm and involvement of the contractor, especially if you have a trustworthy contractor, which is another subject, we can talk about it. We will. Yeah. So it's crucial having a team. Yeah.
Paul: It's like a real estate agent, right? If you have a real estate agent that's on Airbnb and that's the direction you go.
Paul: But again, if you have more of a universal design and more thoughtful. Implementation of what you're doing, right? Then maybe after a certain period of time, you can get out of the Airbnb and sell it and really maximize the value of your property because you've done all that thoughtful stuff up front with your design team.
Nino: Are you buying property in a city that you don't know that well, you know what I'm saying? You need someone who has local knowledge and say like, Hey fellow, you have a really big traffic of the, of the, like students here, or you have like, You know, you have a hospital nearby or you have just business people.
Nino: They're just like, I, you know, looking for something completely different. So, yeah.
Nick: I think I have one final question for you, Sarah. Um, if this is to somebody who's already in the short term rental space, um, or furnace rental space, um, but they want to just kind of tighten that up, make that freshen that listing, make it a little bit better, um, increase that cash flow.
Nick: Um, any advice there?
Sarah: Yes, two things. Staying at yourself. Actually, my business partner, I own a townhouse together, townhome together. And we've been wanting to make these like these things like Titanium. I mean, this is what I do full time, everyone. And I can't even have enough time to go to my own townhome.
Sarah: But we just we're going to spend the night, two nights, and we're going to work there during the day because that's who our avatar is. And we're going to stay there overnight and get some extra deep cleaning done ourselves. It's just good as the owner. To get involved and to get your hands dirty. Then also have, we call it your truth-telling friend.
Sarah: You know, you all have someone in your life who loves telling you the truth. Wait,
Nick: is that me for you guys?
Sarah: Yes. Has no filter. They're not, they don't like anything. Like they want to tell you what you've missed. So invite that person to stay and tell them like find everything that annoys you and I want you to go hog wild. Write it down.
Sarah: I want you to make food in the oven. I want you to use the microwave. I want you to take a shower. Do you use everything? You
Nick: know, I'm happy to stay at your first short term rental.
Sarah: When you get the results back take it with a grain of salt but also open your mind up. I one time got, Nick you, this still haunts me, we got a three-star review. Three stars. And the reason was, I remember, because we didn't have Kleenex throughout the home.
Nick: That's it. Because, listen, I come from humble backgrounds apparently.
Nick: We used toilet paper. I
Sarah: used toilet paper. Yeah. So I didn't even think about it. You know, and I, and I used to work in hotels and in hotels there was always tissue on a side table or coffee table and I just, I just forgot. I didn't think about it. And it, and I, instead of having someone leave me a three-star review, which I can't remove because that again, perception is reality.
Sarah: Her perception is reality. Like, how dare I not have Kleenex? So that is why it is important to have someone who like is ready to rip you apart. And if there's an easy fix, like a box of Kleenex or tissue paper that you can put out. Do it. And I like the fact that
Nino: You said like, uh, it's me and my friend, we're going to do the first cleaning.
Nino: So you're actually switching your head that you mentioned earlier, like get someone else's shoes and trying to get new role that you keep forgetting about and just see how this function. How this space function from different roles, not just owner and user group, but the cleaning
Sarah: team. How many times, like, has a cleaner probably told me, Hey, Sarah, this vacuum isn't working well.
Sarah: And in my brain, I'm like, Oh, that sucks. Like I should do something about that. But I'm not cleaning it. So I'm not getting frustrated every time. And so when we've done this before we one time we had to let go of a cleaner We were in the middle of hiring a new set. So Nick, let's go. We got to clean some of our rentals um Some of this stuff was not helpful.
Sarah: Like it was it was very frustrating some of the tools So
Nick: well with all that said, Sarah, if someone wants to learn more about short term rental education. Um, and or just more about you in general, where can they find you?
Sarah: Head on over to ThanksForVisiting.com. That's it.
Nick: Alright, well, I had fun today.
Nino: I learned a lot, actually.
Nick: Good. A lot. Well, that's the whole point. Just to educate you guys. Yeah.
Paul: It's a team effort. A team effort.
Nino: So we have to have Sarah more often, I would say. It's just different perspective that we as a designer keep forgetting. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.
Paul: I mean, I'll be honest, like the operational side of things, right?
Paul: Like, yeah, it's definitely important, but it's definitely something that gets slipped in your mind. Janitor
Nino: closet.
Nick: Well, thanks for joining us, Sarah. And that wraps up episode number three. This
Paul: has been the ArcFluence podcasts. Please subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review.
Paul: We'd love to hear from you. As always, you can get more information and additional content on arcfluence.com. I'm Paul Fatkins. I'm Nick Karkaian, and
Nick: we'll see you next time.
Introduction to Short-Term Rentals
In Episode Three, the hosts of *The ArcFluence Podcast*, Nick, Paul, and Nino, welcome Sarah Karakaian, co-host of the *Thanks for Visiting* podcast. Together, they dive deep into the short-term rental industry, discussing the strategies property owners can employ to maximize cash flow, create a memorable guest experience, and handle the nuances of property management.
Understanding the Short-Term Rental Market
The conversation opens with a look at how the short-term rental market has changed over time. Sarah shares her personal journey, recounting the early days of hosting on platforms like Airbnb and how she and Nick initially found success by renting out a portion of their own home. They highlight the importance of knowing your market, understanding guest expectations, and maintaining an appealing and functional property.
The hosts agree that the short-term rental market is dynamic, with shifting guest expectations, regulatory hurdles, and increasing competition from both traditional hotels and other rental properties. To stand out, they emphasize the need for property owners to go beyond basic accommodations and design experiences that guests will remember.
Designing with the Guest in Mind
Design plays a significant role in short-term rentals, both in terms of aesthetics and functionality. Sarah explains that thoughtful design is about more than just curb appeal; it's about ensuring that every guest touchpoint is smooth and enjoyable. She and Nick suggest property owners should prioritize the entrance experience, which includes clear signage, convenient parking, and an easy-to-locate entrance.
Sarah emphasizes how important it is to think through the entire guest journey—what they see, feel, and experience from the moment they arrive to when they check out. She recommends incorporating unique, memorable elements in the decor that guests might want to capture for social media, as well as practical features that enhance their stay. By creating a 'wow' factor, owners can encourage positive reviews and repeat bookings.
Operational Considerations and Maintenance
The team shifts focus to property management and upkeep, which are critical to a successful short-term rental. Sarah shares insights on setting up efficient systems for cleaning and maintenance, mentioning the importance of having a designated housekeeping closet stocked with all essentials. By planning for regular maintenance and investing in durable materials, property owners can reduce turnover costs and ensure the property remains in top shape.
Nick and Sarah both highlight the benefits of testing the rental by staying in it themselves. This allows owners to experience it firsthand, uncovering any potential issues that guests might encounter. They suggest having a “truth-telling friend” stay at the property and provide honest feedback on areas for improvement. Doing so helps ensure the property is truly guest-ready and can handle the wear and tear of frequent use.
Creating a Targeted Guest Profile
Another key discussion point is the importance of defining a target audience for the rental. The hosts agree that a successful rental strategy starts with understanding the type of guests you want to attract. Sarah explains that targeting a specific group, such as business travelers, families, or medical professionals, can help tailor the property’s design and amenities to meet their unique needs. For example, rentals near hospitals might prioritize accessibility, while a property geared towards business travelers could include workspace and fast Wi-Fi.
This focused approach not only enhances the guest experience but also improves marketing efforts. Nick advises listeners to consider nearby attractions and potential guest demographics when choosing a property to invest in. By identifying a clear guest profile, property owners can differentiate their rental from others on the market and potentially increase occupancy rates.
Accessibility and Universal Design
The hosts discuss the increasing importance of accessible design in rental properties. Sarah shares insights into universal design, which aims to accommodate a wide range of guest needs, including those with disabilities. She points out that incorporating features such as wider doorways, grab bars in bathrooms, and lower countertops can make a property more appealing to elderly guests, individuals with mobility issues, and even families with young children.
Nick shares examples from his own design projects, where he and his team have integrated accessible features without sacrificing aesthetics. They agree that while these adjustments may require a higher upfront investment, they can broaden the property’s appeal and open up new rental opportunities. Moreover, as the demand for inclusive, accessible accommodations grows, universal design elements can help property owners future-proof their rentals.
Continuous Learning and Staying Updated
The episode wraps up with Sarah emphasizing the need for continuous learning in the short-term rental industry. She encourages property owners to stay informed about trends, guest preferences, and regulatory changes that may affect their rental business. She also shares her experiences as a co-host of the *Thanks for Visiting* podcast, where she and her co-host dive into the latest in rental management and interview industry experts.
Nick adds that being open to feedback and regularly updating the property is essential. Whether it’s adding new amenities, upgrading furnishings, or making design tweaks based on guest reviews, staying proactive can help owners maintain a competitive edge. The team concludes by stressing that with the right mindset, thoughtful design, and a commitment to excellence, anyone can succeed in the short-term rental market.