Team Huddle: Career Building
Team Huddle: Career Building takes a deep dive into the evolving journeys of professionals in architecture and design. In this episode, the ArcFluence team gathers for an open discussion about career development in architecture, focusing on how design professionals navigate their paths. From exploring remote work opportunities for architects during the pandemic to achieving professional licensure, this episode provides valuable insights into building a successful design career in today's fast-changing landscape.
Special guest Mario Peña shares his journey from working remotely in Mexico to becoming a key part of the ArcFluence team, all while pursuing his master's degree in architecture. The team discusses the growing influence of remote collaboration in design, how different countries approach architecture, and the challenges of working internationally as an architect. They also highlight key differences between the architecture industries in the U.S. and Mexico, offering a fresh perspective on international design.
Whether you’re an aspiring architect, a seasoned professional looking to grow, or someone exploring career options in architecture and design, this episode delivers practical advice and personal stories. Tune in for a deep dive into team dynamics, architect licensure, and the evolving nature of the design profession in a global context.
Nick: Welcome to the ArcFluence podcast, where we talk about how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. I'm Nick Karakaian, your host, and today with me, as usual, are my amazing co-hosts and business partners, Paul Fatkins and Nino Samardzic. Today, we have a special guest, and he is also part of the ArcFluence team.
Nick: Mario Peña. Um, Mario, welcome to the show.
Mario: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Nick: This is episode 17, and we're going to explore a few fun things. The reason we have Mario on the show today is because he's visiting.
Nick: You're in town. You're in town from Mexico for the third time. He's part of the team—I mentioned that, too.
Paul: And why not?
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. We actually bring Mario every year. Um, for the last—what is this, the third year? Third year. Yep. Mario, you've been with us for a long time. You started with us back at Nestor's.
Nick: And, uh, we transitioned you over to ArcFluence last year, and now you're finishing up your master's.
Mario: I am.
Nick: We're engaging lawyers about sponsoring you. We're planning a move to Columbus, Ohio. We're working on a lot of big stuff.
Mario: Right. Yeah. No, it's happening now. We've been talking about it for a bit, but yeah, it's happening.
Nick: We got you getting your hours for NCARB. We're working on getting your licensure. And that's kind of the theme of today.
Paul: So let's go back to the beginning. Where did the connection happen? I meant to ask the same question—please, take us to the finish line.
Paul: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Mario: I mean, uh, I did a job search on Google, and it was through ZipRecruiter.com. And so you—
Paul: You posted some ad, trying to just find a drafter.
Nick: I remember, four years ago, it was like $700 or something. Yeah, this was pre-ArcFluence, obviously. This was back at Nestor's.
Nick: At the time, that was a lot of money for me to maybe get a few interviews and hopefully find someone who could help us grow our business. I just remember how much of a struggle it was to even start looking.
Nino: Yeah, at the start of the business—it was hard. Go ahead.
Paul: I mean, what did you search for? Like, you're not from Columbus, right?
Mario: Yeah, no, no. I mean, at the time, I was just looking for remote work because the pandemic was going on. So I was looking for a work-from-home kind of situation, and—
Paul: You worked from home before COVID?
Nick: Yeah, a big distinction.
Nick: And not only that, but you had just finished your bachelor's, and you really didn't have any intention of getting your master's at that point.
Mario: No, I did not I mean at the time I mean I did
Mario: Junior high school high school and then some college over here in the States and then went back to Mexico Good got my architectural degree there. And that was it for me. I was just Out on the working field, you know, yeah fresh out fresh of the from the school.
Paul: Yeah looking for a job exactly Were you at that time?
Paul: Were you doing stuff? Like on the side yourself. Yeah, yeah. So like you had some clients yourself and you were drawing some things like there. Yep. In your hometown.
Mario: Yeah, in Monterey. I was doing stuff. Monterey. Yep. I was doing stuff for clients over there and then I got in contact with Nick. And I mean, time went on, I had one project and two projects from, from Nestor's and I was like, all right, that's time to like, you already
Nino: knew it's Revit, or you actually learned the Revit from Nestor's.
Mario: Yeah. Uh, uh, yeah, half and half. I cannot, I got a gist of Revit when I was starting with the new, uh, new projects, but for sure, I mean, at the time I was learning Revit, learning the new, uh, uh, Ohio building, uh, residential code at the time. So it was like a, uh, If, if, if I was uh, uh, doing drawings, I would be reading the, uh, residential code and then, alright, how do I do this in Revit?
Mario: How, why is it not turning out the way that I, that I want to?
Nino: So is Mexico using a metric system or imperial, or both me metric system metrics? So you have to switch now to the metric, like me, like, oh, what are these things? Yeah, we had this, we brought this conversation last night at dinner . Yeah, I,
Nick: I do wanna call out that Nino.
Nick: You had a, you had a similar process. Oh geez. And you know, your, your long journey to citizenship Oh my goodness. And everything else that, all these, all these hurdles you had to overcome just to get licensed and, and have this what, what is now an amazing career in architecture. Um, and I'm, that's why I'm glad that you two can connect, because
Nino: I feel like, yeah.
Nino: Mm-Hmm, , I, I feel like, uh, I, that's what I like. I really appreciate that, and this is why actually, I don't wanna. Sound too, uh, cliche or, or like, uh, whatever, but this is why I like you like, uh, working United States and having these awesome people around me because it gave me that opportunity because it was like, uh, it was a huge goal for me just to try something next, next in my life.
Nino: You know what I'm saying? And I always, as a young kid wanted to explore. And always to put myself to be my previous firm. They sell, they say that like, uh, feeling comfortable to be uncomfortable. You know what I'm saying? So, because this is the only way you can push yourself forward and process was a treacherous, I can tell you that, but what surface up on a top.
Nino: Is the, you meet the people eventually, if you have a quality in what you're doing, you're going to find the people who seeks for that quality. And doesn't matter where it comes from, from Africa, from Europe, from Mexico, from any other part of the world. And that's why for me, it was like, uh, I think there has to be some kind of special process for a talented people to gather together because.
Nino: They just going to bring the good.
Nick: Well, I, I, I would, I encourage the diversity because you grew up in a, your childhood was way different than mine. Yeah. Mario's childhood was way different than mine. We have a unique perspective that allows us to really, when we work together to enrich that experience and that design.
Nick: That, you know, our clients are going to have when they're in the spaces. We're creating
Nino: helps the economy. Oh, he helps the economy because, because you, you, you want to see the lack of this profession in many fields. And the only reason why I'm United States is succeeding is through the immigration because that's how you get the talents.
Nino: That's, that's, that's a key. It's getting talents and, and, and great things about you, Nick, is having that feeling and, and having that, uh, knowledge of recognizing the talent and bringing talent back to the home. And that's how you recognize Mario was like, you know, I wanted this guy. I want him here. I appreciate that.
Nino: Yeah. And you did the same thing when, when we actually met in the first, in the studio, the first person coming to me because you recognize the talent, you recognize like, geez, I want to hang out with this guy. And I wish we have more people like you. Honestly, that's, that's, that you are pretty much a glue of all this endeavor.
Nino: That is now called ARC Fluence. So thank you for that. Keep being like that. I
Nick: don't think I can, I can stop. So don't worry about it. Well, I, I think that your stories are really important to the topic that we're going to be talking about today. Um, and I can have Mario and Paul speak to a little bit more about this, but right now we're seeing some, um, restrictions and some boundaries being, you know, eased for architects to practice internationally.
Nick: So if you, if we are in the UK, um, we, if we get a project in the UK, it's much easier for an American architect now to practice over there. If we have a project in Mexico, there, that, that border, You know, that that barrier is much easier to navigate now and and Mexican architects can now work in the U. S.
Nick: A lot easier. So we're seeing a few countries now and these organizations collaborate to now saying, Hey, we recognize the fact that these these diverse experiences are actually creating better architecture.
Paul: And yeah, I
Nino: think
Paul: it's part of what we're talking about. It's not like the main topic. We're not just going to talk about that.
Paul: It's, it's a little bit about Mario's backstory and Nino's backstory. Cause obviously Nino, you know, you were an architect in your country before you came here, but it's not like you just transferred over and, Oh, great. Congratulations. I'm an architect here.
Nino: It was a long process and
Paul: it's, it's, it's changed over time.
Paul: And there's been, um, certain countries that have signed on with certain agreements in place to allow for. An ease of transferring licensure across, you know, borders. Um, but even then, like, it's still a process that you have to go through. It's not just like, okay, I'm an architect now,
Nick: but it's possible. And I think that that is, that's opening doors to a brighter future where architects can be celebrated again.
Nick: Yes. Um, this is important profession. Yeah, we need to take it seriously. I mean,
Nino: look at all these big changes that happened to American architecture after all these people from Bauhaus immigrated from Germany to the United States. That was a big boom. That was a big boom. I mean, Gropius is the one who actually started the master of architecture program just to put the architecture on a higher pedestal.
Nick: Now, and we, when I was going through school 15 plus years ago, like I felt special by participating in that, you know what I mean? And I feel like I feel like we lost a little bit of that lack of that luster, you know, and I, I think it's coming back. I think we are entering an age where architecture is going to be celebrated a lot more again.
Nick: Yeah.
Paul: I think our schooling does need to change a little bit though, because it's like back in that time, there was a certain connection to reality. Right. And I think now it's like, it's stretched so far to where it's, It's pure fantasy. Theoretical. I
Nino: know. That, that's kind of scares me a little bit, honestly.
Nino: Cause like a lot of the people
Paul: we even talk to now where it's like, again, like Nick reached out and connected with Mario back then, but it's like, if we reach out now and try and connect with somebody fresh out of school, I mean, you know,
Nick: these recent interviews we've been having, like I've, they just
Paul: don't use the
Nick: tools.
Nick: They don't know Revit. They don't know Revit. I know. They don't know Revit. Not even a little.
Nino: I know. They've
Nick: had a
Paul: class on it, but they couldn't draw a house if their life depended on it. Well, again, they don't understand basic. Like even basic residential construction, you
Nino: remember our comprehensive studio, the first tool that we actually have to use.
Nino: It was a rabbit that we have to use in the comprehensive studio when we are back in Kent state.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. And for a small firm, for any small firm and even midsize firm, it doesn't make sense to be like, okay, tell you what? I know you have the education, but you really didn't learn. Anything that's practical.
Nick: So where we can profit from. So for us to take somebody in and teach them those skill sets, it's challenging for us, right?
Nino: Or having the will to learn like Mario was, honestly, I mean, in that was like, that's, that's another thing. It was like, uh, it takes time, for example, with this, uh, nothing about every generation bring quality and something, but some, kiddos come to the firm.
Nino: They think in another world and they don't understand they have to go from the basics to learn and it's hard work. Unfortunately, it's not overnight, especially in this world of instant glorifications and you want information right now. Quick as possible. No, unfortunately to be good in something, it takes time to learn.
Nino: You have to devote yourself. And this is probably the major things that you recognize in Mario. Like this, this guy doesn't want to give up. He wants to learn. Well, he has, he set up the goals in his
Nick: life. When I emailed Mario, he responded. When I text Mario, he responded. When I called Mario, he picked up the phone.
Nick: Yeah. When I asked him to, when I read Mark's stuff. He and he didn't understand something and he was very thoughtful also on the on the questions We we want to encourage communication and questioning and we also say hey look it's okay to make mistakes you learn from that It's actually a good thing.
Nick: Just don't make the same mistake twice. Yeah, right So I I think that that that eagerness That um that ambition that you had that that willingness to learn passion. Yeah Really was like something that jumped out at me Even though you weren't necessarily ready as ready as I wanted you to be at the time But you know what?
Nick: You are now.
Mario: All right. I appreciate that. I appreciate everything you guys are saying. And it's kind of like the, you know, the drive that you want to learn something. I remember I learned about Revit first time in school. I was in sixth semester of the, uh, and it was just for a class. And past that semester, I was going back to using AutoCAD, which, I mean, nothing wrong with that.
Mario: It's just Revit is more time efficient at the end of the day. And, uh, I remember just being So like impressed with what you can do in Revit and I wanted to keep learning but I mean it was just at that time it's just you gotta Go by yourself and learn it, you know, go to YouTube, go to the forums and apply whatever you can read in.
Mario: What
Nino: opportunities did you recognize working from the arc lines, which was like a click, like in your mind, it was like a, you know what, I would like to stay in working with these guys. Oh, what, what was the,
Mario: yeah, I mean, all the, the, um, attitude or like, like kind of the way that, uh, I was working on, on their, uh, Nick, of course, Paul will, uh, revise my my drawings.
Mario: You, uh, did it for for a time, and if, uh, if I had a a question, I mean, it wasn't taken as you you're, like, if I couldn't understand or I couldn't do it. Uh, you guys took the time to, like, explain the stuff and and just a positive attitude of it and going going back. To the, to the, um, revised drawings, the mock ups.
Mario: Well, it's
Nick: easier to mirror a positive attitude when we're greeted with one. Yeah, exactly. You are such
Nino: a good soul. You can tell that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It was, it was, I remember it was like at that time I was watching the, Narcos is one of my favorite shows and my, my favorite actor, the, the, the character was actually agent Pena and it was like, Oh yeah, Mario, agent Pena, what's going on?
Nino: I remember we talked like it was probably like a past midnight and we were like online talking about the architecture. Thank goodness
Nick: for Narcos. Otherwise you never would have made it.
Nick: Well, um, so let's, let's, let's dive into, uh, You're, you're getting your master's degree. What kind of spawned that? And, and, and where do you, where do you see that? Like
Nino: how everything started, how you decided to, to, to go on it? It was, I think it was three, three years ago. It was in my house. We're talking about old, old, like a four of us.
Nino: So tell us a little bit more about it.
Mario: So the first time I came here, we were on the, um, topic of me moving to Columbus was already like, like on the table. We were, um, I came here to talk and meet everyone in person and talk about that. And yeah, we came up with the, um,
Paul: I think you had already decided it.
Paul: You're like, Oh, I'm going house shopping this week. Yeah. And yeah, it was like, And then I think Nino was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, put on the brakes. Let's have a conversation here.
Mario: Yeah. And, uh, Masters was, uh, It's going to be something that is going to help out. Uh, it was going to make your
Nick: path of least resistance.
Nick: Exactly.
Nino: It's actually going to help you in two things. The first is going to, you're going to get you get your paperwork much easier because for all our listeners, if you're like in a, in a, in a, Higher have higher education your higher bracket for getting your green card for example Which is much easier process if you have earned your degree in master like a master or if you have doctorate in something Much easier path the second important path because Mario through this master program is getting his Needed, uh, accreditation and hours and points for his final accreditation in the United States to become the licensed architect.
Nino: So Mario, maybe you can talk more about NCARB process, how things are going on, that your school is recognized by NCARB and all this. Which we checked before you even applied to that college. And that's for all young kiddos planning to be an architect, please check if your school is NCARB accredited. So, You go through the schools, you receive these points that are important to become tomorrow licensed architect,
Mario: of course.
Mario: Yeah, I had to go back to my school, talk to the dean and talk about all the architecture program and how that transfers over to the States. And if, uh, actually came down to choosing what, what a master's program I like the best, which, uh, uh, Medical infrastructure is the one that I chose because I thought Welcome to the
Nino: field.
Nino: Yeah. I
Mario: appreciate that. Yeah. A lot to learn. That's what drove me to, to that master's program. I didn't know anything about medical infrastructure. So I wanted to learn about that and see what, what differences from residential, from commerce, what, what, what are the stuff that make it like go right. And for
Nick: those of you who don't know, uh, Nino specializes in, in hospitals.
Nick: Yeah. And healthcare architecture. Yeah. And if you guys need any work in that field, Feel free to reach out.
Nino: Feel free to reach out. Dark Points can handle it for
Mario: sure. So yeah, I mean, it came down to that. And, uh, now, uh, Paul here is my, my mentor. So he's the one that's approving my hours. And, um, I'm at the stage where I'm, I'm putting the AXP, um, hours in, in end card.
Nino: So AXP is, if you can explain that it's intern, uh, what is the call that now? The, um, experience program experience. I
Paul: forget what the a, but, but yeah, basically it's like your hours and all the different categories. So whether it's project management, construction, documentation, design, you know, design development,
Nino: Was before only Canada, United States.
Nino: Now NCARB is also including the Mexico in this process. And also does it include UK? It just transfers. It transfers. Okay. Yeah,
Mario: but Canada, Mexico and, and yeah, it's so
Paul: NCARB is still a United States system, but it's recognized. Like there's transferring that is allowed between the UK, Canada, Mexico, like, so I actually
Nino: recognize the accreditation.
Nino: There's still accreditations
Paul: in other places with the other organizations, but now there's like a cross, there's a bridge basically. There's a reciprocity. Yeah,
Nino: reciprocity. Because I know when I actually, uh, when I actually came United States, I have to actually like I get all my like, uh, explanation of the, of the, of the, uh, credit, how many credit hours explanation of all curriculum that I was taking, then actually send that to the, they call it EISA evaluation process.
Nino: They evaluate that, but the good things at the same time, I was already in, in a master program at Kent State, which is also accredited NCAR program. So they have to actually go through all this. Check. Like, do you have enough credit? What credits are missing? And then I was actually able to receive the letter from ESA and NCAR, but I'm actually eligible now to take tests.
Nino: I remember that. I remember how stressful that was. It was a stressful process. It was. So it's
Paul: like if you were to do that today, you'd have to, you would have to do that same process. Same process today. It's only the UK, Canada, Mexico. Exactly. So that's
Nino: actually, these countries have a little bit more like a privilege because they already adjusted their.
Nino: Uh, uh, program, uh, their curriculum in their universities toward the NCARB standards. Therefore, it's much easier to transfer this.
Mario: Yeah. Now they, uh, changed the, um, uh, 10 year experience that you needed. Uh, they moved it down to five years. Five years.
Nino: And the same thing is in the United States, for example, especially in Ohio.
Nino: Your bachelor is not enough you have to go to the master program in order to like unlock that Okay, another level that it is needed for your path to get a license, right? Yeah, otherwise you have to go to go to the another state that that doesn't go but the highest more stringent one So yeah
Paul: Yeah. And even, I think if you do it then, then you can't get NCARB certified.
Paul: If you were to do that, to go to another state, yeah.
Nino: And, and to tell everybody the NCARB is the process that allows the architect to practice the architecture, uh, through all states of the United States. And now it's going to be easier to practice architecture in Canada and hopefully in Mexico too.
Nick: And just for a little bit more context, uh, NCARB process of, of getting You know, leading to being a licensed architect.
Nick: It's not just. Working all these hours. I mean, it's what I would say probably on average what
Paul: a three four year process. Mm hmm Hours, I think it's a little over it's like a thousand something It's like a year and a half of time
Nick: and then after that there's more There's a series of tests that you'll have to take a lot of times a firm will pay for those tests assuming you pass if you fail then it's on the applicant, but um Once which you pass all the tests, then you're now licensed in that state.
Paul: Do you know there used to be a rolling clock? So it's like, if you took a test, you had to finish all the exams within a certain period of time, which I think was five years. Yes, I was in that rolling clock. Yeah, it's now, now it's gone. And if you fail the test, if you
Nino: fail the test, you have to wait six months.
Nino: So
Paul: that one I think still exists, but as far as, yeah. So like I could. Start a test today, pass it, and then 10 years later, finish. Like there's no time limit now on when you finish because before it would be like, if I went five years, that first test would expire and I'd have to retake it. I think that's totally appropriate.
Paul: Yeah. Well, it's gone now. Yeah. So,
Nick: well, no, I think it's appropriate not to have that. Oh, yeah. Maybe. I think it might motivate. It might motivate some. I think it would motivate. But at least that puts the, it gives a little more flexibility, but you know, it'll also make the folks who are motivated shine a little bit more.
Nick: And,
Nino: and most importantly, like in every profession, the key is experience. So you need to do these three years of, and you will see there is different areas because architecture is not just drafting, architecture is way more than that, it's a management, it's a planning, it's God knows what. So you have to have experience in all these areas, a young fellow.
Nino: To learn about dealing with clients sales marketing. That's a huge thing. Yeah, so that's a huge thing I'm now like in project manager, which is more spending time with the clients and marketing. You don't draw much anymore. Yeah, neither do I Yeah Putting putting the budget together. So putting proposal together going on the interviews for a project These are key elements that you're gonna learn through to this profession.
Nino: Yeah, looking forward. Yeah Create. Create, create, create. What else we can talk about Mario and stuff.
Nick: Well, Mario is here for another few days. We've been working together. What do you think of Columbus? I love
Mario: it. Yeah, I've been there a lot. What do you love it about? It's the, uh, well, I've been saying, uh, uh, mostly short north, Grandview area, and, uh, There's a lot of like, uh, always something to do.
Mario: There's always some, uh, place to be, uh. I've been, uh, I remember last year, I was staying in the short north area. And I was like a block away from the main avenue. High street. High street, yeah, I'm sorry. And, uh, go to the coffee shops and I tried, uh. Uh, a pizza place there and then they had like a Mexican lager there.
Mario: Oh, nice. Yeah. And I found out, uh, it was brought here in Columbus, just a local Mexican lager. I'll
Nick: tell you what, the, the Latino culture in Columbus is, it's growing. It's huge. Oh yeah. Yeah.
Mario: I've seen some videos. There's just like a Latin festival. Oh really? Yeah.
Nino: That's cool. That's cool. Actually, we went for a dinner.
Nino: It was a Friday. Oh, that was fun. Oh, my goodness. And we ended up having the mariachi singing, so
Mario: it was such a good experience. Yeah. It was a really good place. Yeah.
Paul: Yeah. Columbus in general, I mean, Columbus in general just has a ton going on. Obviously, you know, you decided a couple of years ago that you wanted to come here.
Paul: Sure. That kind of set you on your path to what you're doing now. Yeah. But I mean, like, there's so much development just not in Columbus, but also all the surrounding areas. So I think the opportunity. here is just greater than anywhere else that you would end up, you know, landing, whether, cause I know you have family in Texas as well, right?
Paul: Yeah.
Mario: My, my, uh, My parents, my brother and my sister and mother in Houston, but you're, you're
Paul: still choosing to come to Columbus.
Nino: So you mentioned it when we actually have a, have a, that dinner, you mentioned that, you know what Nina, I would like to get licensed in United States, but also I don't want to give up my license in Mexico, which is great thing, you know, just exploring the opportunity and spreading the business, especially with your connections that you're building up there and the relationship, their keys in this profession.
Nino: Can you tell me a little bit more about the scene, architecture scene in New Mexico? Of course. So yeah, just tell us like, uh, what kind of obstacles you guys facing there? Uh, what is the, like, uh, your experience there? Like what typical buildings you're being involved in designing there and overall, what is this, what is the scene in New Mexico these
Mario: days?
Mario: Sure, sure. Uh, so. I mostly did residential, um, over, over in Monterey as well, um, and I'd say, uh, Monterey is going through a contemporary design, uh, type of architecture, most, most homes are modern, contemporary, and if any obstacles that I can think of is that there is, we have some regulations that's supposed to be, uh, governed by the state, But still people are choosing to hire somebody who can like go to the contractor, um, uh, instead of hiring an architect and some of the obstacles that we face is most of the houses are not up to code.
Mario: They're not. Some, somebody who's enforcing, uh, you know,
Nino: I see what you're saying. So that is the challenges for architects code enforcement. Yeah, exactly. And this is good. Shout out to all architects. They're complaining about codes and stuff. It's actually called helps you. As an architect, otherwise people were just like a build stuff by themselves.
Nino: It helps
Nick: society.
Nino: Yeah. It's the normal, it helps like it's, yeah. It's like the reason for a code is a safety for God's sake. Granted,
Nick: we can argue that some of it is a little, it
Nino: is overreach. Some of them are some, but for the most
Paul: part, good, good intentions. Yes. So
Nino: how you then manage it? So it's pure quality then, then you have to actually win this, this contract by the pure quality of design.
Mario: Right. And most, most of the times is, uh, whenever we get hired to, uh, well, we used to get hired for, for working on a house, it would be like, all right, what's, what's wrong with it first. And we have to address that first before moving forward with submitting plans. Once the plans were submitted. All right.
Mario: If somebody is going to check, we're going to have some inspectors. And once that process gets started, yeah, there's, there's, uh, the people start getting involved, but you have to like approach that. There's not no inspector going through and actually stopping by to see if, if you have all your, uh, permits, uh, in, in line, you know, so I, I, I guess, yeah, uh, code is a big obstacle.
Mario: There could code enforcement, uh, but as it hasn't stopped, uh, Progress, progress, many talented architects. So
Nino: Monterey is the town to have some issues and difficulties with the water supply. Oh yeah. So you mentioned that like a couple of times, we talk about it, how the, the architecture trying to solve that problem.
Nino: And, and, and you are an architect. I mean, there is a sustainability climate is, is a little bit more, it's a, it's a hot and arid. Yeah. So. Shading is a big component. So I will say so how these are many like a local challenges You're going to see also in the united states. You have areas the struggle with the water supply But here is probably more prominent because there are some other things Of course, there is always corruption and everywhere, but tell us more how this how you guys as an architect trying to can answer those challenges.
Mario: So, yeah, luckily we've, uh, this year we had a really, uh, good raining season. So we're out of the drought. Uh, the States has all. How long did that drought last? Like three years. My
Nino: goodness gracious.
Mario: Yeah, it was, it was bonkers there. 'cause I mean, really we had, uh, it came up to a point where, uh, the water supply was being, um, shut off at some, uh, neighborhoods for like, they would say like, from 5:00 PM all the way to 6:00 AM you were not gonna have waters in this specific zones of the city.
Nick: And I'm trying to wrap my head around that too, because, you know, we have some. Privileges being taking things for granted. Yeah, but,
Paul: um, well here's the Columbus area because I think we have a lot of, Yeah, exactly, but we don't have to worry like if we're not in Arizona where we have to worry about water conservation or something like that But
Nick: to really put it in perspective, I think You know out of all of Latin America Monterey is one of the more expensive cities and Now that even just that impact are we're having this regulation?
Nick: I guess A good portion of the planet is now experiencing these types of and especially
Nino: you probably have a lot of neighborhoods in Monterey, not regulated at all, right? Yeah, yeah. And people connecting to the network, not even, you know, Paying attention that may actually overwhelm the network or or resources or reservoirs, right?
Nino: Yeah.
Mario: And I guess it comes down again to a certification of proper certification because we have, I mean, uh, water drought and Buildings apartment complexes are still going up and that's that hurts the neighborhoods around it because that's water That's being gonna have to be supplied to her resident to the
Nino: new residents because there is a growing demand Exactly, but there is not enough resources to actually support all these buildings being built,
Mario: right?
Mario: Which I know, um, uh, it's, it's an important part of society to keep growing, to keep getting new people in, but you gotta have the, uh, resources, and if not, you gotta know how to tackle those. So, going back to your question, I guess, um, what Most of houses do is have for like a water, uh, water tank where they can like fill up the, uh, water and fill up the tank with water.
Mario: So when the time comes with it, there's a water shortage. That's, that's what you are on your house. Yep.
Nino: So is it usually like a tank, something that is on the ground or you just put it aside or
Mario: supposed to be, you can have it both. Uh, there are some, some houses that, that have the tank system and, and, uh, underground and another, um, on the rooftops on the roof.
Mario: Do
Nick: these new contemporary designs have like water collection? Oh, right. Yeah.
Mario: Yeah. That's, that's the goal as architects. The new, um, For new projects to have a water collection system. So whenever it gets rain. So you have a gray water actually that you can
Nino: use for irrigations.
Mario: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we can washing again?
Mario: Yeah, yeah. We can collect, uh, rain water, filter it, and then go back to, uh, use it for, uh, washing dishes, the, uh, toilets, all the other stuff and yeah. Uh, and, uh, not drinking water. All of course. So
Nino: are the, are the building in, in Monterey so usually have like a flat roofs or the Mm-Hmm. usually have flat roofs.
Nino: We have flat roofs. Yep. Do you guys utilize, do you, do you see now the, the higher usage and demand on photovoltaic for the energy
Mario: as well? Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're seeing more houses with, uh, uh, rooftops covering and, um, for, I think it's for photo cells. Yeah.
Nino: Photo cells. Yeah. Solar panels.
Mario: Uh huh. Solar panels.
Mario: And, uh, And because of, uh, uh, raining season, we also get a hurricane season. So on top, on top of water shortages, we, we have some, um, power supply shortages, shortages
Nino: because of that. So he had,
Nick: I mean, even the U S recently experienced down in Texas. Oh
Nino: yeah.
Nick: Millions and millions of people were out of power for a week.
Nick: No, like
Paul: a month. It
Nino: was a huge thing. Yeah.
Paul: So they, they were doing like a rolling restoration. So they get a group online, a group online, a group online, but then the hardest hit area, it took like a month to come back online. Yeah.
Nino: And I heard that because the Texas is the only system where it's actually separated from the overall American network.
Nino: Yeah.
Paul: It's like an Island. So it's like Hawaii has their own system, but they're an Island. Texas can connect to other people around them. But Texas wants to be a Texas and pay prices. I lived in
Nick: Texas for when I was in the Air Force, and I could tell you what, yeah, but there's, there's a pride of being Texas.
Nick: Speaking of weather events, like when the cold weather came
Paul: through there too, they had power issues as well because again, like the way their system is set up, it, it, it couldn't account for. The cold weather that ended up coming through because they just didn't anticipate that it would happen. And then all of a sudden they had problems generating the power required.
Nino: And it's good things to know because what you have now in Monterey can actually happen in many places, United States. This is just like a, what are we actually facing? Well, it's
Paul: weather patterns are global. It's not in your community and that's it. Yeah, right. It's global and changing. If you
Mario: think about it, I mean, that kind of architecture is a little bit more greener, to be, uh, sufficient on what you collect from rainwater and getting enough energy like electricity from from solar panels and Also, we've we have some projects with uh, instead of like just a concrete rooftop We have a garden roof garden rooftop.
Mario: So that helps a lot with a temperature control. Yeah, I think this
Nick: is only helping um architecture and and culture in general, but like If you go back, you know, 60, 70 years, 80 years, my parents, when they were young, they, they had a completely different mindset on how they used things, electricity and how they dealt with garbage, how they dealt with all these different things.
Nick: And we haven't fixed it all. Um, I think that now we're coming to a, A pinching point to where we're going to be forced to make those decisions, even though it's more expensive, but eventually that the architecture is going to compliment and actually, not only are we to solve this problem, it's, it's going to then be a net benefit.
Nick: It's not going to be more expensive in the end because we're using these new technologies. And, uh, and, and there's a lot of tax credits too that are being offered to implement this technology in residential, not just in the commercial space, which is, Typically, maybe 10 years ago is where we saw most of that right now.
Nick: It's now it's making its way into the residential sector because it's important and we need to address it.
Nino: So the city's growing as well in New Mexico, so it's a high demand and a housing dissimilar is. So do you see like, uh, do you see now the mix used being more propagated or, or?
Mario: Definitely. Yeah. We're seeing more mixed use, uh, zoning when we're, it was mostly residential.
Mario: So now we're, uh, they're, they're doing, uh, Replanning it which is always sometimes sometimes so good things. Uh, some neighborhoods are are going like, um, Improving even the sidewalks even the uh, the whole cables on the street now, they're underground You don't see any cables. There's nothing like visually contaminated Uh the uh roadways, you know, so It has its ups.
Mario: It has its downs, but definitely seeing more. Um, uh, it's us. It's a
Nick: process. I mean, uh, But we've, we've had this conversation too, where the Mexican economy is one of the larger in the world. It's, I think obviously us being number one, or maybe we're fighting it out with China right now. But, um, Mexico, uh, last time I heard was like a lot 12th or 13th largest economy in the world.
Nick: So you have a lot of, there's a lot of purchasing power down, you know, now, and a lot of this, we can talk about the cartels, but a lot of that money has now been. infused into the next generation and has been put into legitimate businesses and, and this economy is starting to hum. Um, it's, it is, I do get the impression that I see these million dollar homes, these beautiful gated communities.
Nick: And then right next door, we're going to see like a house that's 50, 000. Like, you know, we're in this neighborhood struggling and it's, it's right there in plain sight. Right. We, It doesn't seem to be hidden like it, like we seem to do here in the United States. We can hide those neighborhoods a little bit better or have a little bit more integration.
Nick: Um, so it, it, it is a, a problem that you guys I'm sure are recognizing and having to deal with and, and there's some solutions there that you guys are working on. But, um, But that's just the reality of the situation. Yeah, so
Nino: the main construction material Go ahead, finish. Oh, no, I was about to say So the main construction material in Mexico is Concrete.
Nino: Concrete. Concrete. So it's like, it's the same thing as in Europe. It's actually, it's more affordable. It's easier to obtain. And, uh, you're
Paul: limited on your superstructure. Exactly. Well, not necessarily more sustainable though. A lot of energy.
Nino: Consumed into the concrete and also concrete also needs to be addressed by some kind of insulation so you can actually keep it cold and also keep it warm during the winter months.
Nino: So it comes with your benefits and drawbacks as well.
Nick: I think, I think there's a lot of. Innovation that needs to happen in the construction industry in general, but without getting to going down that rabbit hole. I know that the way we think about architecture, it is kind of a temporary thing. We talked about this with the, with the falling water and frankly, right?
Nick: Like we, we need to be able to grow and develop. So like, And we build a house. It's not, it's not meant to last for a thousand years. It's meant to last for a generation potentially or two. Yeah. I will say a hundred years usually.
Nino: Yeah.
Nick: And then, and then hopefully if everything's going well, you know, we, we get the next iteration where we have development and growth and something bigger is going in that footprint rather than just this sprawl of.
Nick: Consuming all of these forests and fields and exactly, we should really start testifying these places for a healthier planet.
Nino: And when we say nothing against the concrete, it's a, it's a beautiful material, but everything has to be used from the, like, uh, you know, you don't want to have to be hundred percentage.
Nino: You have to also utilize the local materials. You have to use trying to like, uh, introduce the recycled content into this concrete. Also use the concrete for like, uh, It's really good to use concrete for like a fire protection, it's inherited. So all the cores, like, I mean, you see, even I believe that, uh, um, The ground zero that a new tower, Liberty tower is actually now have all course is actually poured in concrete, which is actually more safe and more secure.
Nino: It's a, it's a, it's an ingenious design. It's
Nick: actually, it's the self, like if there were another disaster, the building now is designed to collapse in on itself. And it has this tub that contains a concrete tab. Exactly. Yes. And it's solid. It's, it's, it's really brilliant.
Nino: Yeah. Great. Do you, does Mexico use a lot of like a local, is there like any Adobe architecture in, in, in, in the Mexico culture?
Mario: Uh, in the past, yes, most, most, uh, houses, uh, that 1800s of the very first houses in, in Montreux, they're, they're made from Adobe bricks. And we're actually starting to like study, uh, go, go back and study those houses to, uh, To, to know how they, they tackled the temperature control and we, we saw that with, uh, high ceilings and parapets that will cast a shadow onto the sidewalks for the pedestrians to walk in and,
Paul: or orientation.
Paul: So the sun, you know, during the day you're absorbing that heat and during the night it releases it. And since
Nino: it's arid climates, you can use the vent natural ventilation a lot. A lot. And yeah, these
Nick: are all things that we shouldn't forget about. And I feel like sometimes we, we. We start
Paul: to answer or you're from a different area.
Paul: I mean, in Columbus, Ohio, we're not thinking about this stuff, but like I did an internship in New Mexico and they have adobe and we were, I designed like a rammed earth, you know, spa house. And it was like, we just don't have that style of construction here. Because we don't necessarily have that sort of climate to support.
Nino: We have a wood and a lot of it. And sometimes we just, you know, forgetting, we took that for granted, but that's a good things, how they actually utilize it. What is there? What sources you have in order to build yourself a shelter later home. And on the end of residence. Yeah.
Nick: Yeah. Mario, you seem to, to, I mean, it has been four years, but you've, you've now been acclimated to the.
Nick: Yeah. You know, the Midwest, the Columbus building code, so you kind of understand how, how a house is built here. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Like, uh, do, do you, do you study the international building code? Like, cause I know you were getting, I, I would, I wouldn't even ask you and you're, you're reading up on this stuff, which is great because I don't even do that.
Nick: I just referenced the code when I need a question answered. Um, and, and you've actually put a lot, committed a lot of that to memory. Do you see the similarities, any similarities between here and home? Do you reference the international building code? What are your thoughts on all that stuff?
Mario: Sure. So, um, over here, uh, it's like, uh, Nino said, uh, most of the, uh, buildings or houses are made with wood.
Mario: So there is definitely some differences, some similarities, um, where we are supposed to have, uh, insulation as well on, on, on the outer walls, sometimes it's not up to, uh, Whatever their, their referred, their references in the, in the code. It's not enough for, for, in order to tackle it. And. They, they're still using, uh, old codes.
Mario: Uh, the latest, uh, version is like a 1981 code and 1981, 1981. So,
Nick: so everything right here in Columbus, specifically, at least from what my perspective,
Paul: I thought
Nick: 2019 was bad and we're, we're seeing a big push for like energy efficiency here. So you're saying, I suppose you don't have the demand down there with, you know, You don't have the shifts in weather that we do.
Nick: Uh, we experienced all four seasons here where you're pretty much
Nino: the problem is that the government didn't catch up with this stuff. And that's a
Mario: problem. Yeah. And Montreal, the assistance are shorter. Most, most of the year is a summer. You know, it's,
Nick: do you find a more expensive homes implementing things that are above and beyond code?
Nick: Definitely. Definitely. We see that. Okay. Yeah. So they
Paul: recognize the need and they're just doing it. At the cost that they bear, they bear the cost to get it done. Right.
Nino: So Nick asked very excellent question. You're getting familiar now with the codes and regulation in the United States. I can tell you also like comparing to my home country, at least how it was when I was, it was same issues.
Nino: It was in Mexico, like, uh, not really implementation of the code code needed to be updated, uh, just to follow up the current trend and stuff, the same issues. Now, looking at the Two worlds you already have a knowledge. One in New Mexico, one in United States, which is like a border in between what positives from the both world you can actually Use take advantage of your of these benefits and shape yourself as as a good architect.
Mario: Sure. Yes Really good question. So I guess from the U S kind of, uh, code that I've, I've been using most, uh, over the past four years that I've been working with you guys, uh, definitely I see the updated, the needed updated version of, of the residential building code and some of the stuff like they're, they're going from, I think we believe we were using our 13 bad installation on the outer walls and then we moved up to our 20 and That's, that's, uh, uh, a good point.
Mario: I do see some, some features or some like titles that are more targeted towards, uh, safety and I think they kind of limit what, uh, yeah, they can, they can limit what, what the architect wants to do at the end of the sign because over, over in Mexico, yeah, we have a code, but it's not updated. It's not as regulated, but you can get away with more, um, you know, A little bit more interior design, a little bit more like you, you don't have to have, um, like open, open stairs are, are, are a big thing now in contemporary modern, um, houses, which is something that you can do in the United States, but, uh, you don't see it, uh, I guess as much because of, of, of, uh, regulating, um, also cost.
Mario: Definitely. Yeah.
Nino: So, so probably like what else, like, uh, benefits of, of the in New Mexico, like, uh, which you can actually explore it, put another level that can, uh, helps you that you will like to, like, uh, what if it is when you come United States, you're going to come and live in United States, but it was like, uh, what was the reason it told me I will like, still would like to keep the, my license in Mexico?
Nino: Why, why did you say that? What you will, cool. Like, uh, if I can bring something for Mexico, except that Tres Generacion Tequila, is there anything else? It's really good stuff. Because like me and my wife, we were like, like sit and talk. It was like, and I, and I tell her like, uh, like you always have to look in a role, like what are the benefits that you can bring from your previous, from your home here that can make this society better?
Nino: What is something that you can bring from, from the Mexico that all. three of us say like, Oh, geez, thank you, Mark. Thank you, Mario, for coming and bringing this to us. So we didn't even think about it. What is that?
Mario: Yeah. So I want to, I want to keep, um, uh, my. Up upgraded my Mexican licenser there. Uh, mostly because there, there's some talks, uh, committees and, uh, forums that we get invited to, uh, for new, uh, technologies.
Mario: Mm-Hmm. . And I see a lot of new concrete technology technologies going on in, in in Mexican news stuff. Yeah. For, for Concord. And, and, and, uh, I'm not up to date on the latest, uh, Concord over here in the, in the us. Mm-Hmm. . But yeah, like, like you said, concrete is a good material. It is a good material, exactly.
Mario: But you're kind of limited. And if, if, if we're going to be using concrete in the United States or for, for one project or another project or, or we need, we need concrete in there. So, so I think I can implement or get, get up, get up, um, like my, my idea into that, into that project as well. Sure, I can
Nino: tell you like two big hospitals I was involved with.
Nino: Uh, like, uh, they all have, uh, the concrete structure. It was much easier to achieve. It's much easier to achieve that, uh, uh, one a, the, the, the, the, the construction type, you need to like, uh, three hour rating and higher for that. It was more economical on the end to use it because. The material itself has that inherited properties You also can use the pre tensioning post tensioning for a higher spans, right?
Nino: So you have less Columns you have much open the the the the layout so you can do more flexibility and stuff and and i'm glad because That's excellent actually answer because you're already using this material much more than we actually using here So that's great So there is all kinds of development micro like a micro the reinforcing that's another thing Lightweight concrete.
Nino: Oh, yeah, then all these sustainable aggregates that you actually put in it. So reusable concrete So, yeah,
Nick: I would like to add to mario's answer Um, we are seeing a a large number of americans buy vacation homes in mexico. Yeah, and You know Fluence is certainly able to help out with that at this point with Mario being down there and having the
Nino: local knowledge and local.
Nino: Yeah. And also that's a, one thing that there was like a, it's a, what I like about Western world, it's a legislation, you know, it's just like a regulations that, that, that they keep developing, keep progressing that, that actually it's not a burden, it's actually hate, you know, keeping us on a safe side and more, Like a regular environment is less chaos that you have now, like a building, the five story residential building and, uh, on, uh, in the, in the area where they don't have enough water supply, that's, that's the recipe for disaster.
Nino: Oh yeah. So you definitely can marry both worlds, some good legislation you can actually bring. Maybe one day, as a licensed architect in Mexico, you may be on a board or something and say like, guys, look at what these guys are dealing with. They have 2024 code and we are still in eighties code. Yeah. So let's go and update.
Nino: You can be one of the pioneers in, in, in local area that you can actually change the code and then just bring the, uh, the architecture another level.
Mario: Definitely. Definitely. That's the goal. Let's learn as much as I can. If I can help in other places, I'm happy to do it. I
Nick: admire you for that. You're you have had your nose down the last four years, learning as much as you can.
Nick: And that is how you're going to be better at your craft
Nino: and you have a passion and you have a vision. You get your school done. Congratulations for that. Appreciate that. Yeah. You
Paul: got what? A semester left. You're almost done. Yeah,
Mario: this semester I'm working on my thesis project and that's it. So what is your thesis project?
Mario: Sure, uh, I initially started off with, uh, uh, second level, um, hospital over in a, in a town that, uh, I was supposed to get, uh, a thesis mentor. I'm not trying to throw any shade to the school, but, uh, I was supposed to get my mentor, uh, back in second semester. Mm hmm. By the time I needed to be, uh, to need to start working on my thesis at, in, in third semester, I hadn't gotten any mentors, so, oh.
Mario: So I had to like, do it on, on my own with the help of my professor. Uh, um, of course. And, but that's just for, for, for the, uh, class Mm-Hmm. . And yeah, by the time I got one, uh, he took a look at it and he said, it's a really good project, but the size of the town does not need a second level doesn't support that type of, so either you, uh, Scale it down to a first downgraded or make a specialty clinic or move it some, some, some places.
Nino: So it's, it's like, uh, do you have like a gratings of the hospital that you actually depends of the, the size of the community exactly. It's actually second grade. That means has more amenities and it's actually, yeah. You may have imaging, may have urgent care, may have all different. Well, since I'm being in healthcare for how long.
Nino: feel free to always, I appreciate that. Yeah. Feel free to always, you can chat about this. So
Nick: we had a really fun talk the other night about this and over some margaritas. So now your thesis is this behavioral health, um, that is now, you know, it gives you the freedom to pursue that design that you wanted to originally with this really cool, um, Outcome that's actually serving a need right now.
Nick: That's not just in Mexico, but it's actually kind of a global thing. I
Mario: mean, and, and that, uh, that came up because, uh, I had to like. Uh, either choose to, uh, do another site study. Mm hmm. Uh, but you had weeks of research and analysis at this point. I was not ready to do that. So what
Nino: is going to be the majority population of the patients?
Nino: There is going to be addiction or yes. Yeah, it's going to
Mario: be, uh, uh, Uh, it's going to be focusing on, on drug addiction, because that's, that's what, uh, that's a major
Nick: topic.
Mario: Oh, I
Nick: just want to go down this rabbit hole because this was so much fun for me. Um, we, you know, talk about this, this is, this is for those who are listening.
Nick: This is what experience can bring and putting in the thousands of hours and years and years of experience in a specific topic. But can you talk to me a little bit? Cause I think Mario was just as excited as I was like, get into like, How are we designing these spaces? What are some, some circumstances now for specific patients that are in the space?
Nick: Why are we thinking about things differently? We were talking about facing courtyards and, and really like activating spaces and it's,
Nino: it's all depends on a, on a major populations that you have in the, in the, in the, in the, in the institutions, uh, I don't want to call it high cases, but if you just like a, it's just like a simple So your restrictions are less stringent.
Nino: If you have much more severe cases, then the level goes up. Then you have like, uh, facilities with, uh, with, uh, solid ports. Whenever you have, like, uh, uh, uh, corridors between patient unit, And the public, other public spaces between patient unit and the courtyard, you have to have solid ports, which is for these people, they don't know it's like a super secure vestibule.
Nick: And this is to protect not just the patients themselves, but also the people that are are, you know, both parties, all parties. Exactly.
Nino: You have actually protect both staff and patients from the, and other patients because, and also you have to, uh, protect the, uh, the global population from the patients as well, because the reason you have a solid ports in these higher institutions is because the tendency of tailgating, so someone can hide behind someone's back and just.
Nino: Bypass the security.
Nick: And I know when I worked at Google, when we swipe in, yes, they had a, they briefed us, make sure no one's tailgating. No one's following in. Because
Nino: you know, when you, when you opened it, when you activate the car reader is going to give you a couple of seconds of open door. Yeah. Son, you can just like, as soon as you close the door behind you, or actually door is still quietly open, someone can just put their foot in the door and keep it
Paul: open.
Paul: We had a retail situation where it's similar things. Security was an issue and they actually called the space a man, man trap because you had to go through a series of doors. It wasn't just a single door where somebody could then sneak in behind you.
Nick: And we were talking about safety, like life safety too.
Nick: Um, but. One thing that popped out in my head was if concrete such a commonly used, uh, material, but we're having these concrete exposed walls, but that's a, that's a hazard to these patients. And even just. People in general, in some cases. So we, we now have this impact protection.
Nino: You, yeah, we have like a, for example, there is a special impact, impact protecting or impact resistant trials.
Nino: There'll be used sometimes because that is a little bit on high course. I believe the cost going down. We, before we use like a two layers of the regular drywall, it's actually helping to less expensive. Yeah. Let's see. And amortization of the impact, it kind of helps the person not, but yeah, it's, uh, it's all depends of the, of the type of the care that is proposed in this building.
Nino: And once again, uh, you have to be, it's a tons of. Experience years of the experience, dealing with different outcomes, dealing with the new, like, uh, Eureka moments, like, Oh, why we didn't do this? Well,
Nick: interviewing the doctors to find out how they actually operate in the space.
Nino: And then on, and they always going to bring you some unique cases.
Nino: You know, why are we actually doing that we're doing because of that, that, and that, this happens. Yes. And this is why, yeah, and this is exactly why. And some of those stories are really like, uh, like, uh, you know, eye opening, eye opening, head scratching, you know, items. And it's something that you couldn't foresee when you originally designed the structure.
Nino: Until literature, like, uh, like, uh, all, everything has to be to prevent people from harming themselves, like, uh, like, uh, doors on, on a showers cannot be straight. It has to be like slanted. Exactly. So people cannot harm themselves, window cells, window cells. So they cannot actually depict the, like, uh, they cannot pull out like a portion of the wall or a trim.
Nino: Because everything can be a weapon. Against themselves and against others. Usually against themselves. Usually they're trying to harm themselves. I guess my
Nick: point to all this is that when we're designing spaces it goes so much more It goes so much farther than space planning.
Nino: Exactly. Yeah, you have to have like, and there is like in a healthcare, there is on, on top of the regular OBC or IBC, there is the NFPA 101 life safety code.
Nino: So there is, uh, all kinds of different regulation just happens. You may actually have to, as a part of the hospital design, the heliodrome. helipad. So you have to know the aviation standards and protocols. So you have to know, you have to understand like when we actually designed the garage next to the riverside hospital, we have to understand the major path of the, of the, of the air transport, airlift.
Nino: And,
Nick: and the path that we're creating is going to save lives. Like, so you're, you're, you're forcing that, you're forcing that action.
Nino: Cannot create the obstruction, especially like, so yeah, this is all cool stuff. Before we end, Mario, can you tell us something? Meaningful in Spanish
Mario: aprendan todo lo que puedan de arquitectura no solamente regional, también, este, arquitectura fuera de México, eh, sigan aprendiendo lo que no saben, YouTube or forums, learn and find something to apply. That is something that will grow, it
Nick: You guys, Mario, I'm so glad you're here this week. We're going to, I think next time you come back, you might not be going back for a while. Yeah. We're going to do some, hopefully how shopping, if not apartment shopping for you. Yeah. And, um, I'm really excited for the coming years.
Nick: I'm excited to be here as well. Great.
Mario: Great to have you here, man. Thank you. Thank you guys.
Nick: Well, that concludes episode 17 and we'll see you guys in two weeks. Until then, take care of yourself.