Crafting Spaces: Exploring Creativity and Design with Tabi Mund

In this episode of the ArcFluence podcast, the team sits down with Tabi Mund, a renowned interior designer and the founder of Swoon Rugs, to explore the dynamic world of interior design, creativity, and sustainable decor. The conversation begins with an introduction to Tabi's background and journey from the e-design industry to launching her own successful rug and interior design business, Swoon Rugs. The crew discusses the challenges and opportunities she faced while transitioning from a side hustle to a full-time venture, emphasizing the importance of resilience and adaptability in the creative business landscape.

The discussion then shifts to Tabi's unique design philosophy, focusing on how experimentation, mistakes, and iterative processes play a crucial role in achieving beautiful and functional design outcomes. She shares her famous "pottery class" analogy, where the value of learning through doing—rather than striving for perfection from the start—is underscored. This analogy becomes a springboard for a deeper conversation about the importance of embracing the creative process and allowing room for exploration and error, which often leads to more authentic and innovative results.

As the conversation progresses, the hosts and Tabi dive into the practical aspects of interior design, including the logistics of collaborating with clients, architects, and contractors to bring a project from concept to completion. Tabi elaborates on the necessity of clear communication, detailed planning, and setting realistic expectations with clients. She provides insight into her preferred tools and software, such as SketchUp, for creating visual representations and delivering professional-grade design concepts. The discussion touches on topics like the use of mood boards, site visits, material sourcing, and the coordination needed to manage complex interior design projects effectively.

Sustainability in interior design emerges as a central theme, with Tabi advocating for the use of vintage rugs, repurposed materials, and environmentally friendly decor. She shares her perspective on why sustainable choices are not only better for the planet but also add unique character and soul to a space. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding the properties and suitability of different materials, ensuring that design choices are both aesthetically pleasing and practical for the intended use.

Towards the end of the episode, Tabi opens up about her personal and professional journey, emphasizing the significance of autonomy and finding joy in one's work. She discusses her goals of fostering a creative community and working with people who share her passion for design and sustainability. The episode concludes with advice for anyone looking to engage an interior designer or start a creative business, focusing on the importance of clear communication, setting boundaries, and being open to learning from every project.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into the interior design process, from initial concept development to final execution, as well as Tabi Mund’s unique approach to creating spaces that tell a story and reflect personal values. This episode is a must-listen for those interested in interior design, sustainable decor, or the broader creative journey of turning passion into a profession.

Note: The content provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended as investment or financial advice. Please consult a professional financial advisor before making any financial decisions based on the information provided.

 

 

 

Nick: Right. Ready to do this guys. Welcome to the ArcFluence podcast where we talk about how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. I'm Nick Karakaian, your host, and with me are my two amazing co hosts, business partners and lifelong friends, Paul Fatkins and Nino Samardzic. Today we have an amazing guest.

Nick: Danny, what episode is this? Episode 16 coming at you. And we have Tabi Mund with us, who is an amazing interior designer. Tabi, say hi.

Tabi: Hello. Thanks for having me out. I'm going to be really awkward. So let's be okay. By

Paul: the way. Nice to meet you. I know we've communicated via email. It's always like a

fun, yeah.

Paul: Just Oh, who's this person? Hi, Tammy. How's it going?

Nick: I'm excited about this project. I'm happy for that.

Same. Cause I think it could be like more of it. Yeah.

Nick: mean, we've done a lot of site visits together, so I think we've done what, about four projects together

Paul: Nick is always scheming on whatever he has this idea, that idea,

Isn't it great?

Paul: It is sometimes overwhelming. You have to reel me in. Yeah. So all of a sudden he's just Oh, we're going to reach out to Tabi. And I'm like, who's Tabi? So yeah. How do you, how did you meet? What's this backstory with you guys?

Paul: That's a great question.

remember what's your version? Cause I'm, I don't know if it's the same.

Nick: so funny. Let's listen to the versions. My version is you were from the Cincinnati area. No. Keep going. Okay, great. Or Kentucky? Kentucky?

You're very close.

Nick: Okay. And my wife found her, she owns Swoon Rugs and my wife loved her personality, her taste, her posts on Instagram, and she's Nick, you gotta follow this person.

Nick: And then we bought a rug from you and then you said you're moving here. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. And then you started growing your business and things started changing and we bought more rugs from you. And then we started designing with you. Okay.

Yeah, that's it. I think that's the right version. I think I lived in Eastern Kentucky and everyone, like I used to work for an online decorating company out of New York.

it was a startup when I got involved and I would call people from all over the country and I'd Be like i'm in kentucky and they'd be like louisville, lexington. I'm like no a hillside, near west, virginia

Nick: Don't you pronounce it? Like louisville

you know everyone could they're like where what obviously you're in a metropolitan area It's no i'm on the i'm in the middle of nowhere.

Kentucky's

Nick: beautiful. It's a beautiful state. Yeah, I go to Bourbon Trail every year.

I do love Kentucky. Yeah, no, it's all good. I think that's the story.

Nick: that's awesome. What ended up bringing you to Columbus? Or at least, you're in the outskirts.

Totally. You

Nick: still like your privacy.

Yeah, I am in the house. I know. I still like the country a little bit like that. Yeah. That's my speed, yeah. After living in a couple of different places prior. Yeah, so we moved there for my husband's work. He's a firefighter, so he Columbus

Nick: firefight,

like Columbus has awesome fire program, fire department.

Yeah. So it was a big goal to get here. And then we got here and we were like, Let's make the most of it.

Nick: I love that. Cool. Why don't we talk about Swoon Studio or Swoon Homes?

Yes. Okay what do you want to know about it? I've been doing it exclusively, so I got my LLC a couple years ago, but I started working in this field slowly over the last probably five years, or in this vein of work.

Nick: This is so fun. You know our house on Beach Street. Yes, yeah, it's great. And basically We decided to move in there at least for the short term, for the moment now. And with all the other stuff that we had going on with Sarah's business, with Thanks for Visiting and with, ArcFluence exploding, we're like, Oh, we can't, these flips, these, all these things are becoming a lot of work and we need to start building a team.

Nick: We're trying to reach out and grasp for amazing, talented people. And we're like, can you help us design our own home? Like this small. Yeah. And it was spectacular. I was hoping for just like some really good ideas. Cause traditionally we would come up with, Originally, I'm from the New York City market where I did a lot of interior design for luxury apartments and Sarah and I did it together.

Nick: And we had a lot of fun doing it. There was a market for it there. When we came to Columbus about eight years ago, we were reinventing ourselves and, we wanted to obviously invest and get into real estate, but we're like, how can we create some cashflow, to help also eat. And and we found very quickly that the interior design market wasn't.

Nick: not as prolific that it is now. And people just didn't want to necessarily pay and finding those clients and being new to the city was very difficult for us. This has all changed. Columbus is now a big city. It's a completely different,

isn't it crazy?

Nick: my goodness. It's almost doubled in size since we've been here.

Nick: Unless what Monday this past week, they passed the new zoning resolution has passed.

Nick: zoning. Yeah. And we're going to see some major changes with that and Intel and all this other stuff that's going on. So now all of a sudden there's a huge market for interior design.

Yeah, people are. There's a housing shortage. It's like a complicated issue, right? The city is only X big and the population is growing despite that fact. And then the types of homes that people are building in the location that they're building them in doesn't suit everybody. And so certainly, if you want to be in a neighborhood, you have to renovate to stay in that hood.

And I think that's a complicated thing about Columbus in general. It's like how the different areas operate. Even within the city like even within the tax structure like the townships and the ways that those communities are And there's just there's

Nick: commissions and historical districts and rules and And yeah, and also the challenges of just finding the right team and construction people and everything else

100 percent so it's not gonna slow down and I think that's a fun and exciting place to be and I think also If you're interested in doing lots of different like I think There's different designers who want to work in specific veins of work.

Which is awesome. Like I love, I just, I don't happen to be what, I like to do lots of different things. So I think that's another reason.

Nick: Yeah. We're talking about some commercial projects now. But obviously we've focused in the residential side.

Yep.

Nick: So walk me through it. Like how many homes are you designing now?

Nick:

Paul: curious to like your process, right? Cause obviously it's as an architecture firm, we have a certain process that we go through. A certain steps we follow usually as we start a project and get to the point where we wrap it up. And then obviously there's a lot we don't do, which is why we partner with people like yourself.

Paul: So it's I'm just curious, you're a little bit of your process as well.

actually documenting your design. That's another thing. Deliverables are key. Buy the ideas in my head. And then, forget about it.

Nino: actually, do you have, use any softwares or anything for visualizations that you can actually show the client?

Nino: Tell us a little bit more about this stuff. Yeah.

So I'm a really good obsessive and I feel like I'm in a room with some obsessives, right? We're good at doing that, right? Yeah. So it's good.

Paul: Detail oriented.

Yeah. And process is key, right? If you're talking about abstract things and things that also cost a lot of money, like it's a complicated thing to figure out.

So the last three years that's become a little bit of my obsession is process. So deliverables are super important. It's all about creating a visual dialogue with somebody. The architecture thing is interesting because I always wanted to be an architect once I got further in school.

And so realizing that I'm not an architect, but there are things that have to do with flow and how space works that I'm really interested in, but also partnering with people who excel at the things that you can't do, I think are really critical for super successful results. So I love starting with what you guys have done and then moving on from there.

But it's about first creating a visual dialogue. So someone will say modern. That means like a thousand things to different people. It means mid century modern It means contemporary and clean it can be like something that's once all in Europe, you know It's like there's so many reference points for these different words So I try really hard not to stick with the words because I don't know what their background with those words are So like you create this visual dialogue and then you figure out how it works So if I'm brought into the project without an architect I'll do a space planning sort of situation for a kitchen and we'll do the flow because it has to work number one That's it And I use SketchUp because it's pretty affordable and I can take up my line, I do line drawings and SketchUp and I can take those walls up.

And then I do 3D visualizations and that's when we start working into materials and then budget. So you're solving for what it looks like, how it works, and what it costs. And that area that you're trying to get to is where those three things cross, because it has to fit the budget, it has to function, and it has to be what they want it to look like.

So that's,

Nick: I remember when, because we can go down a rabbit hole and provide, now we provide, we're working on an almost 7, 000 square foot custom home together. That is going to be. Extraordinary. And but the price tag on that just for the interior design services is hefty, but the things that we're doing.

Tabi: But Is it? No, you're right.

Nick: what we've seen. It's relative. The time you put, relative to the time you put in. Exactly. I guess my, my, from my perspective, we would give What are those sheets that, like a vision, not a vision board, but

Like a mood board. Yeah,

 

Nick: And we would start with that and that could be something that we could knock out in a couple hours. It would be something easy and appropriate and that was the expectation a decade ago. Now, we're taking clients shopping. We're going out and touching and picking out the light fixtures together.

Nick: We're ordering. These finishes together, we're coordinating the detail. We're making sure they're brought inside and protected in the garage. So they're not taken. We are then coordinating with the contractor and they're using the Gantt charts and working with their schedules and making sure things are arriving.

Nick: Not too early, not too late. And that it's all lined up. So we're part, it's

Nino: actually designed built.

Nick: Yeah. So we're, we have a partnership with the contractor and we're filling in a lot of these gaps and it's really becoming a full service.

Nino: So you're actually in charge of ordering of the materials and delivery and all this stuff?

It depends on what people are looking for. So I think it's like every project is different, but in this project definitely Being as useful as a possibly can because for a variety of reasons I think that this project is unique in a number of different ways Correct. So our roles have shifted to suit that need of this specific scope And this project we will probably help with definitely ordering lighting labeling.

 

Paul: hundreds, the wall sconces are out of control on this project. Yeah. I love sconces. But at a certain point we were walking through and it's just like another one here and another one here. And it's okay, what number are we at?

It's going to look so great.

Layers of light. It's going to, this is a home. They're going to live in for generations. And I think that's something that's,

Nick: the property is stunning and yeah,

that's the goal at least. You know what I mean? Not that they necessarily will, but I think the hope is that, they'll be here for a long time and get their kids will be here and that are, I don't know how that would work with twins, but someone will live there.

Maybe they fight for it. There's some sort of like battle. I don't know how that works out. It's not for us to decide.

Nick: In this particular project, we did the floor plans. We are engaging Tabi with interior design. We are doing the landscape architecture. This is really apassion project at this point and we're really excited at how it turns out.

Nick:

my gosh. Yeah, so excited.

Nick: Our deadline is What so we're in jill. We're in August now. Yeah, and I think this recording is probably gonna be a September but We're really trying to finish up by January

I think that there's gonna be phases of finish, but I think that they could potentially move in and live through trim carpentry wrap up and those sort of details which they'll have to decide, but I think definitely spring they'll be fully moved in.

And I think everyone will be done with their part. Fred will be done with. Landscape by then.

Nick: Yeah. So let's talk about those meetings, that shopping experience. What are some of the challenges you come into when you're working with clients and what are some of the joys that you really have that?

Nick: Cause we, I've been geeking out with you a lot on certain elements for we're trying to make a decision. We're likewe gotta get both the couple on the same page. Cause sometimes one person has an opinion.

couple.

Nick: And then we are obviously have our own opinions and we're strong and opinionated about that.

Nick: So it's been a dance.

It is. And as always, I love that. I think this is a weird thing about like growing up with a shrink is like we talked about why people do stuff. Like you would talk about the weather. Like it was just an everyday kind of like, why is someone doing that?

This is, maybe it's not that, Consistent or constant but we talked about it a lot so I love people and I love thinking about why they do things and I love like connecting and it's actually a really intimate process because you're Helping them decide a lot of financial decisions And then a lot of personal things and then also like if you're working with a couple which often I end up Working with couples you're helping them decide something where they can both feel like they're part of the decision And that's a hard thing to do and I think a lot of designers Find that part.

Nick: Okay. I shouldn't project onto all designers, but I think sometimes I hear from designers It's like they didn't like what I liked, and duh that's not Your job is not to tell people what they like your job is to help people make decisions Meet their goals, right?

Nick: You almost have to take your personal preference out of the equation what we can Push into the conversation is, we do 100 plus houses a year, right? Paul and I can design a kitchen or a house in our sleep. And we can see Hey, We have a design review with all of our clients. So we go, Hey, we asked how they're going to function with their family, how they're going to live together, what they prefer to, because based on there's cultural references sometimes that we have to deal with.

Nick: And we're like, okay, we need to have an extra dishwasher or do this or do that. And make this work for their family. And. we'll have the discussion say, Hey, this is what we did. We've done this before. This is what we're seeing over and over again. Would you consider this?

Nick: Yep. But then let's also bring it back to you and how is it going to be relevant

Paul: to you and your family? I always like it. When you get to that sticking point, Nick, you're always like, listen, I want to challenge you here. That's like your favorite phrase to use. I think it's sometimes important.

Paul: Like you said it's a lot of listening, taking things in, and you're setting your own personal preference aside. So I agree with what you're saying. And yeah, I think you're right. It's like you push them and say, listen, all my experience, we've always done this. What are your thoughts on it?

Paul: And then you listen to the feedback go from there.

Nino: Save client from themselves because they have some goals and they think that's the right way to go and you have to just tell them like, Hey, what is going to cost too much or it's going to be overly complicated and you can do anything you want if you have enough money question I have for you is one that sticks with all designers.

Nino: It's that Holy Trinity. time. Scope and budget. Yeah, and we have a tendency to over invest ourself in a project and Crushing the boundary of something it's usually time and budget that kill us the end How are you trying to find the balance in these two or you haven't it yet? Great question.

Yeah, I think that I can usually with my scope have a time limit in there.

Tabi: So it's like

we're gonna make x number of decisions in x amount of time

Tabi: Yeah,

and I feel like that puts the pressure on everybody, like if these decisions aren't made in this specific time window, which is Pretty broad like I'm not like you have to figure this out in two weeks, you know it's usually months of time and I think that helps, keep everybody and if it's a fair

Nick: It's easier said than done because they have jobs and they have challenges and they have kids and they have I mean everything kind of Piles and

Nino: I'm guessing you have multiple clients that you're trying to juggle So you have to dedicate your time to other people you cannot over invest just one.

Exactly. I'm on a diet. I'm on a medicated ADHD. I was medicated as a kid for a long time. And then as an adult, I was like, no, thank you. But I use stress to help me focus.

Nick: I think, when my back is against the wall, I perform better.

Much better. So it's figuring out the right amount of stress, but I really like being set in like a pressure cooker.

I also heard this thing one time, like I read this book called Art and Fear like 15 years, a while ago. And it talks, there's a story, it's probably not just in this book, but read it in the book, where this Pottery teacher would take the students and divide them in two, and he would take half the class and say your only goal this semester is to create one piece of beautiful pottery, and that's what you'll be graded on.

And then the other group of the class was to make the most pieces that they could make, and that was their grade. And so when they finished, the pieces that were the most beautiful were the ones where they had experimented the most, and created, and had the most mistakes, and learned from those mistakes and so I think that. I'm so excited to be in this like moment of doing the work that I'm really interested in with people that are really lovely. So I'm like very much. Trying to work through that part of it. Like how much can I learn? How quickly can I learn it? What can I get through?

Nick: Oh, it's a similar thing happened in our house where we're like we wanted to buy these antique dressers to put in all of our bathrooms as the vanities and I'm like, okay How are we gonna make this work?

Nick: And we had to get tops for some of these so I'm like we so beautiful tops Yeah, Tabi took us to the the store we picked out some marble. Now we're going up the wall with the marble. Then now we're getting real shapes, the marble. I'm like, Oh, this is getting expensive.

with your eyes open.

You made the decision Absolutely. Like a slowed process.

Nick: when it got installed, I was like, Holy cow, nobody has a bathroom like this. This is great. And, it was a lot of fun. The process was fun too and I enjoyed the journey. Everyone really tries to stick to The goal of something or like the end point where I want to get this thing at the end.

Nick: But like what we've learned by doing this multiple times, we're discovering like, Hey, we can create better things if we take some risks. And I think that was what you're trying to say. Absolutely.

think, yeah. I'm just having a lot of fun. So you being this

Nino: business you mentioned over five years.

Yeah, that's so I went to school, I have a BA in interior design and I graduated in 2000. First I was an English major and I was going to be a poet. And then I was like, Oh, that's not real. Or, but you're like 18, everyone should be 18 and idealistic.

Nick: born too early.

Nick: Cause it's create right now. Creativity is being rewarded everywhere.

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, like being a creative is like the key, right? You know what I mean?

Nino: thing.

then I was like I need to figure out a job. This has to be like a real thing. So I worked at pier one and I worked with an interior design student and I was like,

I could do that. So it wasn't like, I was like, and I trading, do you remember trading spaces?

Tabi: Yeah.

So like I was enamored with the show and I was like looking for my career and like feeling lost. And so I went to school for interior design and then I graduated in 2009 which was a rough moment for that industry.

That's when I got

Nick: my master's.

went back and you were just like, no, I'm not entering the work world right now. I'm going back for my master's.

Nick: I graduated with my master's in 2009 and I went to New York City and I quickly found out that not only I was in a competitive market, but The economy in general was challenging.

Nick: Yeah, it was a big crash.

crazy. And I was like, most people getting out of school sort of foolish and like excited. And I had all these skills, and I was like, here I am world, and then I only applied to the top architecture firms. Cause in school it was like only commercial design is worth your time.

Which I think when you think about the spheres of where we live, like our homes aren't important, but our work is important. And you can break that down a number of different ways. Like our homes do matter. Like work isn't the only thing. Yeah.

Nick: I would say, we all heard the same thing and we were in, we were entering the market the same time you were and even know that there was some truth to that.

Nick: We didn't, I didn't take that path. I got into residential.

not. I tried really hard not to.

Nick: Yeah.

But I couldn't do it. I couldn't figure it out. So I just floundered.

Nick: Yeah.

And I worked retail.

Nick: going through your head during that time period?

Everything was a mess.

Like I left a long time relationship and like my life was falling apart and I moved to Atlanta with my partner and we just floated around for a couple of years.

Nick: So how'd you end up in Kentucky?

We moved to Atlanta, then we moved to Virginia Beach, and that was great. I lived in the beach for three years, and had no responsibilities.

Nick: That sounds awesome.

Why did I leave that? Why did I ever not stay there? I had a kid. So I had a kid, and then a friend of mine from college reached out, and we're starting this online startup. It's gonna be decorating with anyone, anywhere, all over the world. So I joined that team and I was really excited and passionate about it.

I had a kiddo and I was gonna like work full time and be a full time stay at home mom. And then that went really bad. But it took me several years of hitting my head against the wall before realizing like you actually can't do that.

Nick: Okay, so let's fast forward to today. We are working on some exciting projects.

Nick: I like the fact that we're doing things like site visits with the contractor. We did our electrical walkthrough before. Now not only are you picking out the fixtures and ordering the fixtures and working with that and coordinating that in the timeline with the contractor. We're also going on site before the.

Nick: Electrical inspection and saying, Oh, what would be thoughtful is placement of this outlet for these specific things. And we're doing crazy things like primary lighting, secondary lighting, tertiary lighting. And some of this is custom.

Yeah, and vintage sometimes they're getting pieces and we're rewiring them I mean, I think it's how much attention to detail.

Do you need what I used to try to do in the past was Be as hands off as possible and as quick because I felt like that was a kindness It was like people don't really want to invest in this see like I'm taking up too much of their time And I felt Like how can I get you like a mood board like here it is like you do it and then I started working with a construction company in tandem, on projects and staying really involved and that's when You can really start to see the gaps.

People don't know how to explain it. And it's not fair for a customer to write a novel about how it looks. You know what I mean? And people try to do that. Or they're like, could I be there when the guy lays the tile and tell him what I want? No, you cannot. That is so inefficient and unnecessary.

And everything has to be lined out and clearly communicated and signed off on for efficiency and for accuracy. So we don't have like change orders and doing things over. So what I used to feel like was a kindness and being minimal. a service scope was actually creating so many problems down the chain.

It was a disservice. Yeah.

Nino: And this usually happens in a residential. When you have two owners and they like to give their inputs even during construction, it's in the middle and that's actually, things go sideways usually.

Exactly.

Nick: But I think it's challenging from a business owner standpoint because we have to have a very thoughtful conversation with the homeowner.

Nick: We have to then say, Hey, look, before it was like an hourly situation and we're going to give you this to get that to wet the appetite so that you can have a basic concept and a basic idea of what we're going to do. And then you run with it. But now we're like if you choose to purchase these services, this is a package deal.

Nick: This is your monthly. Price point exactly that it's a flat rate fee for the month, but it includes all these things so many meetings You know with the client with the architect with the contractor all these different Interactions so that we're making sure that everything goes smoothly

exactly if you're going to invest Hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars into your home.

Yeah, how happy do you want to be? When it's done or how many things do you want to go back and change? Or Unknowns, I think the other thing is about install realities People don't understand how materials are going to meet and so they feel like they can make decisions But sometimes they make them without all of the information and when you don't have all of the information The install is not what people want.

Nick: No the money We're saving our clients by charging them a premium and doing everything to their

clarity

Nick: It's paramount because if they want to go back later and change something after the fact, inflation, different contractors, you name it, the fact that they're living in the house now and we have to work around that, that changes the scope.

Nick: It changes the price point. It's much more expensive to do it later than it is to do it right the first time.

Just get it right the first time. Yeah. Get it right and understand what it is that you're doing. Understand what it costs. The other thing that people don't understand is for example, this is a general way to talk about this idea, but a 12 by 24 inch tile is cheaper to install than a two by two tile.

, or, that's a most like a, it'd be a sheet, a four by four, a two by eight, or whatever it is. So if you make, 2000 square feet tile decision about two different materials now your labor costs go up and then you're like, but why Contractors are building out their bids based on what they think you're going to select And that will have to change based on all the materials for every material, it's not just one example, but it amplifies through, if you want wallpaper, if you're going to do wood treatment on the wall.

Nick: I think that's an important distinction to make to the client. Hey, that's why we want to talk to your contractor. We want to have that dialogue because it's potentially going to save you money.

Paul: Yeah. They probably don't realize as well. It's not like you're just going to your contractor. He does everything.

Paul: He also has a team of people that he's engaging as well. So there might be one person for wallpaper that he uses exclusively for wallpaper because he's amazing at it. And that's the person that he's going to use no matter what. And so Paul, I love how you chose wallpaper because wallpaper is so in right now.

Paul: Yeah. She just, mentioned it, but it's like anything tile. Maybe there's flooring, right? He has a guy and that's all he does is just flooring

Tabi: and

Paul: nothing else. So the contractor is engaging with everybody. And like you said, if it's something different than, okay, I gotta go talk to that guy and now it's going to be this price for that guy to do this and et cetera.

It's all about coordination. So every material decision is a different labor costs.

Paul: Yeah.

So that that's hands down. And then every Decision has to have a quote associated with it. So you're pricing out all these different things and then sometimes people are like What about this versus this? So now you're collecting two quotes or you know What if I lay my floor tile and a herringbone in the front versus just doing it like a more of a straight lay?

What are those different costs

Nick: and sometimes that process is Multiple steps like for example when we go to our trim carpenter or a furniture maker? You're gonna do a spec like a proposed general idea of this is the vibe we're going for These are the basic dimensions and then he's okay.

Nick: How can we actually build this right? And how can we make it better? So it's a collaboration We're getting multiple viewpoints on how to make this piece as amazing as possible and just make it a viable thing so that it can be done at a cost of maybe not a cost effective way, but at least it's realistic.

Nick: And not unreal. we're not wasting that time and money.

It's what they, it's their, it's, your client is always going to tell you what they want to spend. And so it's about helping them meet their expectations. For example, the wood piece is a good example. Is it pink grade wood or is it oak?

Is it rift sawn oak? You know what I mean? So that within all of those different decisions, there's tiers of pricing built in. And people just you can't. Know all those things, even if you read, great number of design blogs. You're going to get misinformation and you're going to get confused and then you're going to be at the mercy

Paul: when was the blog posted too.

Paul: So if it was posted a year ago, it'd be very different. That conversation versus the conversation today exactly and

Nino: What is the key of the good interior design is actually not only putting nice colors together But understanding the properties of materials what materials can be suitable to place in one room You know because sometimes will say people I would like to have wood flooring in the kitchen Can I have it?

Nino: Yes, but How is it going to be installed? How is it going to be prepped? Another question for you I have is, do you any site visit or inspection of the work? Is it your ad services? Is it something that you put as a basis of design? Can you tell us more your typical basic services?

Nino: What do you usually like to do? ad services, because now I'm listening your engagement in this project, it's almost like a, for me, it was like, there a lot of ad services that you probably picking materials, orderings, like a storage in them, put some additional wiring in it.

Nino: That's old for me, architect who worries about control. I don't want to be sued some things,

totally. Yeah. So how you actually,

Nino: yeah. How you actually define what is your basis services? What is your additional services? And how you communicate that with the client through the contract to how

yeah, so I did get a nice contract put together last year happy with how that's been working and I think I haven't had i've been very lucky That nothing has gone south But I think it's the nature of the industry, like things do go wrong, but it's always about coming up with a solution.

Nino, and you might not know this, but on this particular project a lot of that liability goes through ArcFluence. In this instance, correct. So I don't contract, I don't put a contract with this particular client.

 

Nick: actually

Nino: putting

Nick: contract through the ArcFluence? Design services are through our company. Same with the landscape design. I see what you're saying. So we are managing that process.

Nino: But do you, when you do some job, do you actually doing your own contract separately and then you have to worry about all this?

Nino:

have to, it's all about communication and being thorough, you know what I mean? Making sure that you're doing the right thing in the right way. I luckily have not had any issues I think it's just again if you are talking to the right people about the right things and asking the right questions and providing documentation that's the key and letting experts like the people that do the woodworkers the mill workers if they tell you that something needs to be done a certain way listening to that information and making Those adjustments

Nino: exactly

So it's you already

Nino: have a network of your woodworkers and are they usually like a local?

Nino: Yes.

Oh, yeah. Yes. That's been an interesting, we were talking about millwork earlier. You know what I mean? It's finding the right people who also, not just being skilled at what they do, but also who are good communicators with you.

Nick: Yeah. We spend a lot of time educating our clients and setting expectations. And I think that's like when we do design consultations, they're starting to now take the shape of rather than me coming in and we still certainly talk about the possibilities, but It's a lot of finding out the client's needs, strategy, and then educating on what is the best course of action.

Nick: And we were taking a lot of our design consultation time to now have those conversations, which sets us up for success when we get started on the project.

Nino: So for this latest project, did you guys recommended the contractor or were selected by the client?

Nick: The contractor we have worked with in the past and he brought us in on the project.

Nick:

Nino: contractor was the Bravo project. Yeah. And including all trades, like including the millwork guys, so you have to maybe recommend the millwork guy.

Unusual. This is an unusual project. The client has a tile installer and I think he did his own HVAC subcontracting if I remember correctly.

So there's been a couple of things where the client has taken on. And so you have to just. Do more legwork to make sure I see what you're saying. Yeah. Got it. And it's not, I like that kind of stuff.

Nick: yeah. In this particular case, it is going to be worth it. I'm super excited about how amazing this is going to turn out.

Yeah. And they're lovely people. And I think they're brilliant. Building something for their family. That's like the storytelling aspect is always, I think the most interesting part, it's like, why are you doing this? And who is it for? And what is the narrative that you're talking about in your own head about your house or, like, how do you feel about the space that you're going to inhabit? I think they're creating almost like a fairytale environment, like they're creating it's beautiful. It's going to be unreal.

Nick: Do you recall, is it Frank Lloyd Wright So one of my architectural heroes designed a house around another house, like around a small house.

Nick: They build a superstructure around an actually existing house. I can't remember who it was though. Cause this was years and years ago, a house within a house that definitely was not Frank Lloyd Wright. But it's, this is kind

Paul: of the case here where they had original like house that they were inspired by and they took, A few hints from it to set them on their path.

Paul: Did Frank

Gehry do that? With like, when he was like, the superstructure over

Nick: he had an old childhood house or something. And then he ended up building a new house and he,

and he built a new house.

Nick: Yeah. And the original house and the footprint stayed. So in this particular case, like the cabin and the original foundation, everything, and they built on to this cabin on and around and above it.

Nick: And it's really unique.

Paul: it's three times the house it was.

Nick: Yeah. And it was definitely the more expensive route, but they had, there's an attachment to them. There's an emotional bond with that original cabin that they bought so many years ago. So it made it special. So it's a really good story.

Nino: So talking from today to the future, where are you seeing yourself? What is your future goals? Where are you seeing the potential growth in a business or your personal growth?

I want to have a good time.

Nino: Okay.

It's like paramount, we're only on here for so long. Like why not enjoy it? But like really, truly, when I say I want to have a nice time, like that's the happiness is the key.

Nino: You're

Nick: guiding light.

I just,

Nino: how are you achieving that? Can you sell us a little bit that secret recipe so we can all enjoy it? What is your secret thing? Yeah.

I think Autonomy. Autonomy, okay. Like setting your own schedule.

Picking the kind of things that you want to focus on. Working with people that you want to work with. And having the ability to at some point say these aren't the right partnerships I tried to work for somebody else before I jumped into my own thing.

And that didn't go great. You know what I mean? But I think autonomy is key. I want to build a team of creatives who just want to do fun, creative things.

Nick: agree more. And I think the result of doing those things, you are now in, because of that happiness, you're now saying, Oh, I like to do this.

Nick: Five o'clock comes, I'm not looking at the clock, I'm working and I'm enjoying, I'm getting this immense satisfaction out of the things that we're creating together. I think it makes you better at your craft.

Obsessive, just obsessives just want to obsess, right? I think, and if you can let us do that.

Paul: Oh it's about caring too, right? There's, it's not just like a job to you. it's not a task that it's okay, I'm done. And you walk away from it. You actually care about the product. You care about the space that you're organizing. You care about what the experience is in the space based on the materials that you put there.

Paul: I get it, like that side of it for sure.

Nino: And creating realistic schedules. So you're probably like, okay, I have this client that probably have to devote majority of my time to this client and then you have a second call like, Hey, Tabi, can you help us with this?

I want to say yes to everybody. Yeah. I know. But the reality is

Paul: the curse. It's like the curse of the design.

Nino: To

Paul: everything.

Nino: And then he started biting you back. Yeah. So I think mastering that, I like your approach. I like the autonomy that you have.

Nino: I think that's a key, especially being brave enough to set up your LLC and starting from there, another being the mother of a kid and having the job is not easy either. Yeah, and there is a lot of balancing already that you're doing in your life. But having that first look enjoyment of design, I know sometimes I'm mostly I'm project manager now today with a big project, but sometimes if I get an opportunity to design something, like designing this, like a self checking station in the hospital.

Nino: And I was like, I'm going to actually design that. And then you feel that pure enjoyment on it. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods, it's probably like a 10 percent of the everyday's work. So I'm really envy you, your approach and location where you're now.

it's not been easy. Lots of failure.

Like an enormous amount of failure and it's been so informative. Problem solving. I just love problem solving. So even just the clients solving their space and communicating with them, but also the unknowns. Like now this house has. X, Y, and Z problem with it. And so the solution that we developed is not going to work.

So now you have to solve that problem. And I don't find that to be tedious or overwhelming. let's see what we can figure out.

Nino: Do you usually like a work with the some kind of community or groups that are actually creating something?

Nino: Like when you mentioned rugs, is there like a, something like a local makers of the rugs or something like that?

Oh, yeah. So In terms of what is being made locally, it would be artists doing tufting carpets.

Nino: Oh. Do you know the

tufting process? No.

Nino: So you take, explain this.

Nino:

take a like a cheesecloth it probably isn't exactly what, that's what it looks like. Yeah. And then you'd shoot usually wool or nylon fibers. Yeah. And then you glue the backing on later, so like it's a very organic, like if you're an artist and you want to create something in a different medium, you can design and draw whatever it is, and then do this thing, and you can either cut it or have it be looped, and there's other ways you can produce it.

So I think that would be locally, most of the carpets that you Source otherwise are probably still being made overseas, even if they're machine made, but a lot of the rugs are hand knotted and they would be made in Afghanistan, India.

Tabi: And sometimes,

A lot of things from Turkey are coming out that are older.

So like maybe not necessarily being produced there. It's frequently, but Afghanistan I think is still pretty active and certain India, definitely Pakistan. so the other thing that I'm really focused on for future is sourcing and finding like high quality, interesting old things, not necessarily always old, but I think that old things are inherently easy to love.

Paul: Oh, they have character and they're definitely more unique than something you just go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy off the shelf, yes.

And I love West Elm. Can I talk about them?

Paul: Absolutely.

think that we're a little bit saturated in some of that. Like I think you have to create an interesting.

Collected space you have to collect things. And so I think you can have staples from big box stores I think it's the high low being smart with your budget and that sort of thing But I like to see people finding things and having things that are more meaningful

Nick: Yeah, and I think we're also seeing the market now where people are willing to pay for that.

Nick:

100 percent

Nick: Yeah,

and you still yeah, I still love To shop there like that's not a negative. It's like it's about creating that balance, but if you only are buying things that are new There's gonna probably be something You it won't be as interesting or dynamic as it could be.

Nick: It might be lacking a soul or 100%.

Nick: Yeah. That's why my house that's, yeah. Sarah and I design personality. We call it Grandma Chic. Yes. So it has that old world, comfy, That soul. But then chic it modern. Yeah, but that's modern layer.

Nino: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah,

I love it No, I think that's the way to do it I think if you can balance those things really well in a way that's meaningful and personal You can create something that isn't going you're not gonna get tired of it.

I think that's the other thing It's like we live in a consumerist culture I'm not trying to knock that and on its own like I think that we just have to be more conscious of what we're consuming and how we're consuming it.

Nino: So majority of selection of materials, light fixtures even furniture doing online or you already have some connections that you can.

Nino: Explore like for example furniture wise there are some local people that are actually made their own or do you like to recommend?

There are several I'm gonna get their names wrong, but there's a brand on and I'm gonna not even remember where they are but TJ I won't even try. I should look it up later.

That's fine. Yeah, it doesn't matter. T Wife Furnishings. So there's a local and then Edgework Creative is building furniture. Fabric Farms is doing upholstery. They're an interesting company because upholsters, like mill workers, are older and often people are not taking on these trades and they're taking it on themselves to train up a younger group of people to do these things.

Nick: Yes. Take on those trades. If you're listening to this we need that.

Nino: Yeah. Recently, actually I visited the furniture factory in Wisconsin, and this big furniture factory is almost employ like a, the half of the city and you have generation and generation actually working in this factory.

Nino: And pollstering is one of the processes that I actually went there and I was just staring and look at them like a, how are they putting this very skillfully together. And it's really my passion was like, geez, I can stay here and stare at these people all day long. Nina

Nick: wants to take two years off and just get, really get into it.

Nick:

Nino: honestly, I like stuff when they're actually made by hands, Same.

We connect instantly to stuff that we can tell is made by hand. It's like the human seeing another human thing that's been done.

Nick: Sarah and I really didn't get into like art. We really couldn't afford to be honest, in our You got

to find it.

It takes, yeah, that's the harp. Yeah.

Nick: The that layer that adds so much to a home and that creative I mean we do have a lot of my grandmother's paintings in the house, which is great. I love it. But I think that creative Needs to exist in every space because it's gonna make You as an individual, especially if it's attached to you in some way.

Storytelling.

Nick: It'll make you more fulfilled and everything how you even show up in the world. I think it's gonna make you better

Nino: I usually say the good designers has to be good storyteller. Honestly, I'm almost like a positive about it and sometimes we just like What I actually figure out that Keep your sketches, keep your, you cannot believe your processes.

Nino: Sometimes we just if you sketch on a napkin or something, we have tendency to draw away. It was like it was just take it for granted. You know what I'm saying? Keep all this stuff. Sometimes I ask like my interior designers, it was like, guys, I don't want to see your renderings that someone else put it.

Nino: I want to see your sketches and I'll put it on a board. I want to see the process. I want to see creation. Take a step back.

Nick: How about

Nino: just sketch it out for a while?

Nick: conceptual design and put a little bit of time in

Nino: it. So do you sketch? How was your, I haven't actually heard more about your process, like your creative, how inspiration came from, like how are you putting things together?

Nino: what triggers it?

Yeah, that's, I think the client is always the inspiration. So that's key, number one. I really just start with a plan, like the layout and sketch up. And I just, I iterate and I just I think taking, even though I don't necessarily schedule it, I take a lot of time to play and I think it's that play, it's the same thing.

You know what I mean? It's like, it doesn't have to be finished. It doesn't have to be perfect. It's about the IDing that you're doing. I just happen to do it digitally a lot. if I really get stuck, I might sketch out something just to work through it very quickly.

This isn't working. This isn't working. I'm

Nino: I'm using something similar. It's like a sharp 3d, which is an iPad, which is some kind of sketch up for iPad. And I'm actually using that medium a lot.

Tabi: Yes.

Nino: Just to play with the geometry scales and stuff. And it just helps you that process

I have started sketching at night onmy iPad. There's nothing important, nothing that matters, just this is a llama, like literally nothing that matters, but just to have that disconnect or to continue that creative, whatever it is, the more I can do creative things, that's really what I want to do. Jerry Seinfeld, who's not my favorite comedian, which is irrelevant, but he said that he wanted to be like a woodchuck. The woodchuck just wants to chuck the wood. He wants to do the comedy. I just want to do the creative, whatever it is.

You know what I mean? I just want to do that as much as I can until I die.

Nino: I love that. So are you in a networking with other interior designers? Do you guys have any gig going together or like how you actually keeping yourself in a professional world just learning new trends, informations and stuff.

Nino: I

think like being in Kentucky and then moving to Columbus and having my So as a mom doing it online, I had an e commerce selling rugs and I've done that for eight years. So I still have it, but it was like very big. In my main focus several years ago, I was so isolated. Like I was just at home.

I was on Instagram and it was like my only adult communication besides go to the grocery store or whatever. When I came to Columbus, I was very much hi, how are you? You're doing something. Let's talk. And that's one of the reasons we connected, it's I met several small business owners and then they connected me to different builders.

And it was just very much about being curious and not. Being shy about saying hi,

Nino: I'm going

So I've gone to high point a couple of times. I think high points cool. It's exhausting. I was going to go to Neocon this Summer, but I missed it with summer camps and scheduling it just wasn't a good time. So it's definitely on my radar to go soon so that you can see the new stuff so that you can be immersed inside what other people are doing.

It's so important. It's just about creating the time to do it. And I also want like one of the bigger goals would be to do some traveling and sourcing and just going to places that are interesting I don't know.

Paul: Like Milan? Like everywhere. Yeah.

Yeah. I got to go to Japan in college. I'm not super well traveled, but I want to go back and I bought some pottery when I was there.

South America I think is also another great there's so many places to be able to go and find the story of people and connect those dots. I think that's what it's about.

Nick: Yeah. That's awesome. Cool. Tabi, thank you so much for joining us today. If there was.

Nick: one piece of advice you could give out to someone who's engaging an interior designer or an architect. what would you tell that client to make sure that they ask or cover?

Wait, so tell us, I'm talking to a client. Not a young professional.

Someone who's out

Nick: there, who, what questions should they be asking their interior designer?

to your, if you're just getting ready to hire them? Yeah. I would want to talk to the referrals. Who are your clients? I want to talk to past clients and hear what they have to say about working with you.

And then I would also want to know like more of what their process is like, and what are the physical deliverables? If they don't have a good list of physical deliverables, like I use Sketchup, I use Google sheets. You know what I mean? Like here's exactly what we're buying. Here's exactly what it costs.

Here's where all your quotes live on a Google drive. You have to, like if you, and if you, if someone isn't answering or engaging you, if they just want to show you mood boards, Just know that should only cost a certain amount of money and you're gonna have to do a lot of legwork and if That's totally fine with you That's great.

Paul: it's like the design consultation level for us. So that's the mood board, but then if you want like the full blown drawing set, then fine. We're going to get into all the nitty gritty detail and let's do it.

Paul: But obviously a lot more time and effort on our part. How

Nino: high sustainability is on your agenda?

I think it's huge. It has to be right. I think that, when I started getting into rugs, it was a reaction to being in a rug showroom with a second generation rug dealer who was very passionate about the history of all these carpets, but also sold polypropylene machine made rugs That would last about three to five years

Tabi: and it was

And I felt like I didn't understand why he did it, he had a business to run and it wasn't like he was going to stop the tide of these Products like they're I see what you're saying exist, but when I started my company with selling rugs They were only selling Wool.

Because wool is the best fiber.

Nick: It just

is.

Nick: I love our rugs from you.

And I just, we even

Nick: did, we even do like pillow, pillows and stuff. Like it's awesome. Yeah.

And they're usually made from like older products that were remade into pillows or whatever. But if you're not thinking about these things, you're missing what's happening right now.

Yeah. Yep.

Nick: I think that's a great stopping point. Tabi. Thanks so much for joining us. This is a really fun conversation.

Nino: I can talk to you for hours. Honestly, it was really

Paul: He just, he likes talking about design in general. Nino is our

Nick: creative for sure. So you, yeah, you guys will hit it off or we're going to be working on more projects, we're going to bring you in under the interior design side.

Nick: If you want. Yeah.

Nino: No, I'm going to be an architect and I'll let Tavi rule the world. I have no problem with that. You'll do the spatial layout and she'll do problem is I'm really nosing but it takes the time. Like my interior designers, for example, why are you sketching when we gonna design?

Nino: because I'm project manager, it was like in my world, everybody who wants design is designed because now we're challenging ourselves. We're challenging this design because every design, how simple it looks at the beginning, actually can be very complicated thing. Absolutely.

Nino: Yeah. And if you show the passion and love for it, it's going to transcend to client much easier and quicker. And he's going to grab it as a sponge, he's going to socked in. If it is something thoughtfully put together, he's going to appreciate. Like you're buying your car and you're gonna see Oh, do you guys think about this?

Nino: They think about that. They think about this. You know what I'm saying?

Intentionality always comes through. It always does. We can see it.

Nino: send so quickly to the client if you really put effort and love into it. No, you cannot. So if you just phone it in, it shows right through. Like that carpet that you mentioned, you just recognize from the get go is just,

soulless and yeah, basically a piece.

Plastic that's gonna go and sit into a landfill very quickly. It's a waste of your money, sorry, I'm so sorry, don't buy whatever you want, I don't mean that.

Nick: that's

Nino: exactly

Nick: how it is. You get what you pay for as an expression for a reason. And it's

Nino: today's world when people just trying to make money overnight and just looking for shortcuts and it's

We have to be more conscious of what we're doing.

Nick: Yes. Yeah. And I think we'll be surprised on how much joy it actually brings us. Exactly. It does bring the joy.

is instant. It is long term, but it can also be instant.

Nick: Yeah.

Thank you guys so much for having me out. I very much appreciate it.

Nick: got it. We'll be back in two weeks for another episode.

Nick: Until then. Take care of yourself.

Tabi: All right. That was so good.

Nino: Oh my gosh. You survived. Guys fly so quickly.

Paul: This has been the ARC Fluence podcast. As always, you can get more information and additional content on arcfluence. com. Please subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review.

Paul: We'd love to hear from you.