Episode Eleven: Affordable Housing
The crew discusses the intersection of design, urban planning, and affordable housing with their special guest, Ryan Mainwaring, who shares insights into his journey as a real estate investor in Columbus, Ohio. The conversation dives into the complexities of real estate investing, including navigating zoning variances, securing financing through the Affordable Housing Trust, and managing rising construction costs. They highlight the architectural and structural considerations in the project, such as maximizing space with nine-foot ceilings and using a truss system for flexibility. The episode emphasizes the importance of creating communities with diverse income levels and the role of government-private partnerships in sustainable urban development. The discussion also covers the future of affordable housing in Columbus, evolving zoning regulations, and the potential for similar projects to address local housing needs. The crew expresses excitement for the project's completion and its positive impact on the community. Key words: affordable housing, real estate investing, Columbus Ohio, zoning variances, urban planning, architectural design, community development, government-private partnerships, housing trust, structural engineering.
Nick: Welcome to the Arcfluence podcast, where we talk about how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. I'm Nick Karrikan, your host, and as always, my two co hosts, Paul Fatkins and Nino Samradic. All right, guys. Today, we have a special guest, Ryan Mainwaring, and he's a client of Arcfluence's. We've done an interesting project, and we're gonna talk about affordable housing.
Nick: Before we get into it, how you guys doing today?
Paulie: I'm doing pretty good. Thanks Sunday morning. Beautiful. No complaints. I
Nick: see you're wearing your, uh, Formula 1.
Paulie: I know. I'm not hopeful for Mercedes today, but you know, I'm representing. Hey, Hamilton
Nick: did amazing on the sprint, didn't he? He did. He did pretty good.
Nick: It was
Paulie: an odd qualifying and a good race. Yeah, exactly. And Ryan, if you don't know what you're talking about No, I'm aware of Formula 1.
Ryan: Oh, good! What, uh, what was the series on it?
Paulie: Uh, drive to survive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more interest in the states now because of that. Are they
Nick: doing a new, uh, season for that?
Paulie: Um, yeah. Every year they've done a new season. So it's always the preceding, it's the previous year. So right before the season, they release it. Because they're recording. Yeah. And then you can catch up on the last season. But it's like you're already, if you were following it, you already saw it. Right. So in
Nick: addition to design and investing, we also talk about Shows and formula one.
Nino: Yeah.
Nick: All right. Well today we're talking about affordable housing. Um, this is a really cool topic because it, it covers a lot of different passions of mine, not just architecture and design, but we're also, I mean, uh, we have our master's degrees in urban planning, you know, did you, did you get urban planning?
Nick: Yeah. I went to the CIDC,
Nino: but then switched back to architect.
Nick: And, um, I just, I love how, I love how cities develop both organically and, um, and by design, right? Um, and in doing that, we've come into, you've seen it all over the country where we have these clusters of housing that some of them work out and some of them don't work out and living in New York city, I've seen.
Nick: a building or a city block have every possible amenity as possible with every walk of life as possible. And it works. And I've also seen, you know, dying cities where certain sections of them are dying because they're neglected and they're not designed properly. And I think there's a lot of opportunity today to, um, to create.
Nick: Um, a better community by weaving in these programs that Columbus is now starting to offer that involves affordable housing. Um, it's also a great opportunity for investors. Um, so let's get into it. Um, Ryan, why don't you tell us a little bit about the project, a little about yourself and, uh, get us started on this journey.
Ryan: Okay. So I started and uh, thank you, Nick, for having me first off. I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Uh, with ARC Fluence in general, we started, uh, I started investing in real estate in 2016. We're, and we're up to 10 to 12, we'll be at 13 units after this triplex we're going to talk about today is done. We have a mixture of short term, long term, Uh, rentals in general.
Ryan: Um, and so we currently have some that are in the HUD housing section eight, but this one, the project we're talking about today is a triplex for affordable housing. It's going to, it's under the company name of a laneway, which actually leads into, uh, how to build communities to where they have, they are close together.
Ryan: I don't know laneway is. It comes, it's a European, uh, architectural design where basically you have housing on each side of a street and they all work together. So. You know, the idea of this is how do you build a sense of community?
Nick: Great. And you're doing all this while you have a job, a W2 job.
Ryan: That's right.
Ryan: And young kids, a seven and four year old.
Nick: So it is possible you guys.
Ryan: It is with the help of, uh, of, of friends and family and a great wife that's supporting me. How did we meet? Oh, that's a good, good question, Nick. So I believe we met at
Nick: coin. Yes. Central Ohio investors network, the largest meetup in Columbus, Ohio.
Nick: Is it really? It's the largest free meetup in Columbus, Ohio. For investors of Central Ohio.
Ryan: I remember seeing you and Sarah speak at Coin when Jim and the others were still running Coin. You were a speaker there talking about your journey from New York. I think you had a couple short term rentals at that time. How many years ago was that? That had to be more than four or five. Somewhere in that time frame I believe.
Ryan: And then, um, At some point during COIN I got to know Nate, uh, Nate Roddick I think, or And we went to do a spotlight and you were running COIN at that time and so you reached out to me about a member spotlight in 2021.
Nick: Right. COVID or the wake of COVID. Yep. Um, yeah, I took a, I took over and we had you on because we were really just kind of starting your project.
Nick: It was kind of infancy of it. And I thought it was a really cool thing. Um, I think your passion about, you know, what you want to do with your portfolio really kind of got, got my attention too. So you kind of have a unique perspective. You're not just out trying to make tons and tons of money. Right. You really want to make an impact on the community and make a difference.
Nick: Um, do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Ryan: Yep. So yeah, there's two, two. Uh, so the real estate journey started back in like 2016 as a way to financially retire early, you know, the fire movement kind of idea. Um, and started getting into flips and rentals at that time, fast forward or 2024. Um, You know, we have, we'll be around, uh, 10 to 15 properties by the end of this triplex.
Ryan: I think it would be technically 13. Um, some are all ours, some are partnerships, right? But what to kind of elaborate on what Nick's saying there is a piece of our portfolio is profit driven and most of our stuff will make money at the end of the day, even the affordable, but you know, a portion of our, our portfolio is provided to people who, who are in need such as section eight HUD housing.
Ryan: And then affordable rents. And we also have some group housing, which is for people who need assistance when they're older. Um, so. But you can still provide to the community, do something good and still make sure you're whole as an investor. That's the beauty of real estate is you're providing something that's helping them out, but you're also able to make some money on the backend.
Ryan: Not as much as some of the other portfolio, but that's, that's when you, when you take a portfolio architecture part, a portion of is this and allows you to do these other things like this project, for instance.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, we'll get into the numbers towards the end here, or when we get, you know, in a minute here, but.
Nick: I got to say, when we were talking about the numbers for these units, if you're in the right place, I mean, we're not going to build, you know, in upper Arlington necessarily, but, um, if we're in the right place, it's really, it really does make a whole lot of sense. And there's, there's times restrictions on it, right?
Nick: You're not held to that forever. Right, right. Okay. So let's talk about the project. Um, what was your inspiration? How'd you find the lot and, um,
Ryan: what does it look like? Okay. So this, this project started when I bought another asset and Franklin 10. Um, so I bought a house and it came with a lot and I think we bought in 18 or 19 somewhere in there.
Ryan: We rehabbed that current house, um, to do as a short term, long term kind of play. And eventually what happened is a couple of years we were kind of, I was slowing down on, you know, building the portfolio. I had some time and I was like, Hey, I'm going to go down the journey of something, you know, build, split the lot off and build it.
Ryan: So, and 2020, 2021 ish time I start looking into, uh, talking to people who've done this before. Like, what do I need to first do with the first step was just figuring out what is it zoned? So that was an interesting process. Try to figure out the zones and what could I build is essentially the question, like how could, how high could I go?
Ryan: Or how much density?
Paulie: So when you originally bought the lot, you weren't necessarily thinking of splitting or anything. You just kind of got like this bonus lot next to the house that you bought. So really it wasn't something you sought, but then later you're like, well, why not develop it? Why not invest and put something back instead of leaving it just this empty space.
Ryan: And I think it was a little bit of like, I had time and so I had time to, I wanted to do another project, a challenge, uh, do something new, but also real estate prices had gone up. And assets were becoming more expensive and I had this lot free and clear which was a big Edge up to like hey, I can actually potentially do something here So we start we went down that path So yeah, no plans at all went down the split and just started talking to others of hey What's the process how to figure out?
Ryan: So the first thing we started off with is You had to run the numbers, like, is this worth our time? Can this pencil out? And this is 2021, right? As COVID's coming. So I'm sure we can imagine. It looked great. All the numbers look great. And then the process and not, you know, how slow I was getting through and we'll talk about the timeline.
Ryan: Everything changed. All the numbers flipped on its head. So it became a question of within a year, right? Can we even do this project? Yeah,
Nick: I had a duplex that I was doing that year and my budget basically doubled. We had to hold it. Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. So, um, what happened is about that, but, but that single family came with a lot, uh, started the process essentially March, 2021 of looking in, got the, Hey, financially it looks like a good play.
Ryan: Okay. Let's go down the process of trying to build something. And so that's where, uh, yours and I's relationship started to grow because I talked to you about our, the art fluence in general of being the architect. For it, um, and going down the path of building, building this, doing the architectural drawings.
Ryan: But the first thing is we have to go through a bunch of variances. And so Good thing Paul's around.
Nick: Yeah. Paul, we had to like, did you go to the city and actually meet in person?
Paulie: I don't think at that time. I think Ryan, I think you did most of it, right? Because at that point, like you said, you were having conversations with people, but we weren't locked in necessarily at that point.
Paulie: I think we came in later, just to do the plans, and then there was hurdles that we had to still go through with the city, where it was some bumpy stuff. That's when I was jumping in.
Nick: So, um, So basically for our listeners, um, a variance is something that when it comes to zoning, there's certain rules like setbacks and square footage and limitations on what you can do with your property, height restrictions, um, and a variance allows us to get a pass on that particular property.
Nick: Requirement so that we can build what we want to build and I think your story Ryan with with the city Like you you argued like hey, I'm doing affordable housing. This is the plan You know and you would already
Nino: bringing great to the community. So what are the major variances that you have to go through?
Ryan: So it was we had to get the side yard Reduced from whatever the I can't remember exactly what it was. We had to get the backyard From like 50% it down to 25%. We had to get, uh, setbacks from the properties next to us. We had to reduce those, ask for reduction on that.
Nick: Um, and actually that triggered, um, us getting a structural engineer involved because of the close proximity to
Ryan: each foundation.
Ryan: Yep. And then we also had to the lot size, even though it was zoned all the way up to a fourplex, the lot was too small. For the triplex we were building. So I had to get an ask to go, Hey, from 7, 500 square feet, I think is, or something like that.
Nick: 7, 500. Yeah, down
Ryan: to 28 or whatever, whatever my lot size was.
Ryan: I never, all parking is off street. Yeah. Parking too. Had to get parking reduced from six to three. Got it. Yeah.
Paulie: I was going to say, I never understand that. It's like if, if you're zoned for multi, you know, unit, yeah. Set up and then you're like, okay, but I need expert and all these zones are these smaller lots in the city center or near the city center.
Paulie: It's like, it's just not possible. So it's like almost every single time where it's like you have a duplex, a triplex, whatever you have to go through this variance process, at least for that part of it.
Nino: I know they're mostly because zoning was placed God knows what time ago and the city now is going through all this flexibility and gymnastic to kind of suit, you know, new needs.
Nino: Exactly.
Nick: It's outdated. And it's funny you say that too, because I have Ryan, have you been getting a lot of letters in the mail from zoning lately? Like last couple of weeks? Okay. So I've gotten several letters for various properties that are near corridors, like main corridors of Columbus. And they're like, Hey, were we Vamping the zoning and this is this whole streets gonna be changing to you know I think seven stories, um, several of these
Nino: corridors, which so
Nick: now that there's no setbacks, there's no parking restrictions.
Nick: There's, there's, there's height changes.
Nino: They're going through the changes. They're trying to respond to the trends, to the possibilities of the city handling stuff and demands, which
Nick: I think is a great thing. We're going to have more density. We're going to have development. We're going to have a larger tax base to, and hopefully.
Nick: That won't raise our taxes. It'll just increase the volume. Just
Nino: walking through the city. I like, uh, if you pay attention, you're going to see like all these new developments and you're going to see people already like a jamming into this apartments. And then you see like a first floor empty, which was actually reserved for, uh, retail
Nick: retails
Nino: and stuff.
Nino: So you see the trends that it's housing is in high need and especially affordable housing because housing that's going to give you all amenities that you can enjoy from the city is expensive.
Nick: But I think that's wonderful. If you have a hundred apartments and a percentage of that is affordable housing, you still have the pool, the gym there.
Nick: This is, again, I think that when everyone, when people are isolated. Problems happen in certain areas, right? Oh, yeah, but everyone together and everyone's taking care of something.
Nino: It's going to be some adjustments going to take some time, but I think that Ryan mentioned, which is actually beautifully, you always have to actually also think on the returns.
Nino: So that's why I'm glad to have him here on, uh, on, on this podcast. So I can actually not only, you know, share his, you know, share the architectural side of the, but also the earning side a
Nick: hundred percent. And You know, we both take an advantage of tax abatements for just fixing up houses. And have
Nino: you received any like when you do affordable housing, except some exclusions that you get from the zoning as a benefit because you're giving greater good to the community.
Nino: Have you received any other like a benefits or, or anything from the government or a city?
Ryan: Yeah. So one of the things As Nick referenced, the tax abatements, I mean, you get that without doing affordable rents, um, in general, but so that's, there's a, once the project's completed, I think it's 15 years now, uh, so.
Ryan: In some areas it's 15, some areas it's 10. I think it's 15 in Franklin 10, and so what that means is, you know, whatever the structure is right now, which is nothing, the additional, the addition of the new build is not going to be taxed for 15 years. Oh, I see what you're saying. So that's a huge, that helps with like, as you take on a new asset, it helps with that, you know, making sure it's financially stable.
Paulie: The upfront cost so you can actually invest into the area.
Nick: It's interesting too, because with the incredible growth of Columbus, we get a tax assessment every two years now, right? And your taxes go up, not a whole lot, but a little bit. And imagine being locked into your low unimproved home for 15 years and you can do a renovation, you know, and make your house worth.
Nick: You know twice as much you're still still paying. Well, that's not your neighborhood. You live in a really good neighborhood so you're not going to qualify but But
Nino: franklinton area that is actually going out to the big changes and now this gravity project and
Nick: if you rent it out if you live there, whatever your taxes are now locked in for Probably a majority of the time you're going to have that home right So it's a great it's a great program Speaking of which there's other programs that you're taking advantage of and I I don't know a whole lot about it But the loan that you got for the construction loan that that is huge.
Nick: Is that for this
Nino: project?
Ryan: Yes Yeah, talk about so the the affordable housing trust. Um So this is another Another call to coin. So I went to coin to speak about Going through the lot split process and in going there talk to aaron, right? Who is a Pretty good developer in town has done a lot of multi family stuff much larger than what we did what I did here I asked them.
Ryan: Hey So kind of going to the timeline here. This is like 2022 time 2000. Yeah somewhere in there and Rates have gone through the roof. They're no longer threes and fives and sixes or threes and fives They're sevens and eights now and construction cost is Essentially gone from I think you started off with talking everyone You We ran with the numbers of like 110 per square foot are now 170.
Ryan: So like we've almost doubled in price and construction build. So basically I'm sitting, uh, when I come to coin to talk about this project, I'm basically at the point of lending's too expensive. The project's too expensive. I'm not sure I'm going to do this. So through Aaron, he met, he got me hooked up with affordable housing trust, which is, you know, if you take money from someone, In general, government entities or quasi government entities is what this is.
Ryan: There's going to be requirements. So that's where the affordable piece comes into this. So I, I do have requirements that I have to charge. I can only charge a certain amount per unit from them. So I met up with them and I talked with them. They had never done anything smaller than, I don't know what size, but this is the first triplex they've ever done.
Ryan: So I'm the smallest project they've ever touched. And what they offered was, hey, we'll finance this for eight years. One, uh, one and a half of it is going to be your construction timeline, and then we'll do six and a half on the back end. So it's amortized over 25 years or something like that. So my payments look like it's a loan that goes to 25 years, but I have to refi at six at eight years.
Ryan: I have to get into another loan product, right? They gave me a two and a half, two and a half percent interest rate. Two and a half percent. And last year, that's lower than my primary house. Last year I
Nick: bought a rate down. For one of our investment properties to 8. 1%. And I bought that down and he's getting two and a
Nino: half and you're going to be good for like a couple of years.
Nino: You said eight years from the start. And
Ryan: that started in April, 2023. That clock started that huge. That is a huge,
Nino: my house before COVID is, is 3. 1%. I don't know
Nick: if we're going to see that again. No, I don't think so. Not
Nino: anytime soon, but it's a good initiative. So you're saying. So you're saying there was like a first property that size they actually give it give it like a debt kind of opportunity to you Yep.
Ryan: Yeah, just happened to be like, hey sounds good. I don't know if Aaron said anything. I have no idea if there's any background conversations But they're like, yeah, we'll give it a try. They were trying to what they were running into is they had them Some money in general from the government, right? But they couldn't they they're bought their lending box You Was too, was too small.
Ryan: I see. So they were trying to figure out, you know, and when you get government funds, my, at least from my understanding is you've gotta use them or they go away. Right? Oh yeah. So they were trying to expand that box and in wa you Yeah. And, and wa me and I'm like, and it wasn't that much, but, um, but it's crazy.
Ryan: It's like, you know, here it is in 2022 is when I'm talking to him and I, you know, we closed April, we closed with the loan on April, 2023. Rates are going up. And they're like, yeah, two and a half percent. Why? It's a no brainer. Well, but, yeah. Well, yeah, no brainer for me. Why, why them? Why, why offer that? Like, you could be competitive at 5%.
Ryan: And make money for the government like I was kind of blown away why they were locked in. So I'll take it
Nick: But there's there is a lot of forward thinking leaders in government Believe it or not right and and and they really do care about the growth of columbus We there's a lot of people working and that's what it's supposed to do.
Nick: That's yeah, that's
Nino: your commitment. That's
Paulie: your job, right? So I think that's probably part of it, right? It's it's more about the investment into the community the growth of the community the development of the community
Nino: So is that Is that like a state set? You said like a semi government is like a state agency or it's a federal
Ryan: agency or so it's a bit, it's a separate company from the state, right?
Ryan: But it's connected to my, so I call it, I call it quasi. So they have a con,
Nick: I think I understand this. They have a contract with, uh, you know, the local government Columbus.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Or, or Ohio. So, um, so with that is, so they, what they offered was, Hey, we'll, we'll finance up to 85 percent of your construction and we'll give you two and a half percent that's, you know, done over eight years.
Ryan: And the requirement is is that we have to charge, I think it's 70 percent AMI area, medium income. And what that translates to, there's lots of math. I asked for the, I got the document and I looked at it. I'm like, and I tried to calculate myself and I was way wrong. So I basically, uh, What that translates into for a three bedroom and this adjust every year, right?
Ryan: It's going to go up every year with inflation like the numbers we can charge, right? Is that it says in franklinton for a three bedroom, we can charge with you. The total rent is like 1700 per unit, which by the way, is fantastic. Is market rent technically in the area? Really? Well, we'll start. It's actually slightly low because Franklin to new builds that are like they rent, they throw a three bedroom, they do pretty well now.
Ryan: But, but we can charge up to that, um, is what we want to. But the idea here is so So one of the units will be rented out to the group housing I mentioned before, most likely. So it's someone I've been renting to for a while. They are having challenges with another landlord. And they would like to move some of their people to one of our units.
Ryan: And so these are people who need assistance, um, just because of disabilities or, um, mental issues, right? So they provide this assistance. So that's a, that's a, that's again a, a private company that has clients. Right. That kind of works together. And then the other part, the other two units will probably do section eight HUD housing.
Ryan: Uh, we have a couple duplex. We have a duplex right now that does it. Um, or that we do it with. And it's been a great experience. Um, You know, it's once you get used to it and you understand it, the tenants, the reason we want to do it, one is it's providing housing to people who need it. But two, they don't change very often.
Ryan: We've had essentially the same tenants in our duplex for three or four years. Oh yeah. Now we've gotten feedback from some people that go in there that they're not kept the best, but the turns are so minimum that you're like, okay, maybe you're going to, not keeping them clean, but overall, you're taking care of the property.
Ryan: That's okay. So like, it's, it's been, it's been a great experience. You know, the government, uh, the federal, uh, federal government. the Fed provides our CMHA Columbus Metro Housing Authority provides a monthly check and then the tenant has to pay the other portion. But so we're probably going to do those as affordable rent.
Ryan: Oh, those two units, the other two units will go to the HUD section. So
Nino: what was the, what was the, like, uh, you know, whenever you say like a government, semi government, it's always like a bureaucracy included and it's a process that takes time. How long is actually take you, you mentioned. , uh, then you actually locked in, uh, your, uh, loan was like a April, 2002.
Nino: Yep. Yeah. But you, you almost started entire process in 22. So long. How long is that? All this procedure. Okay. Paperwork. Oh, 20 approval. 21
Paulie: is when you started thinking about it. Yeah. So 2021, where we're at. So when you
Nino: engage this semi Mm-Hmm. government. Agency, how long tells you, what is the time, time, timeline with both affordable housing?
Nino: Yes.
Paulie: Just, just for the loan part
Ryan: of it, just for
Nino: the loan
Ryan: part. Um, so we engaged them in 2022 just to get, Hey, preliminary, right. That was pretty lightweight, to be honest. So they gave us a rate at the end of 2022 and said, you have until April. This rate's good until April. And then you got to execute. Um, you gotta, you gotta start the process.
Ryan: They definitely. Um, Did they ask you like
Nino: for floor plans or anything? Yeah,
Ryan: architectural drawings. They asked, uh, yeah, they want to see the triplex. So at that point in time, we had the site plan and the drawings were done. Yeah, we, we
Nick: worked on the site plan first for the variances, but then we're like, okay, well, we got to show these elevations.
Nick: And one of their big pushbacks to us that I recall, um, was we want this to, you know, Look like it's part of the city streetscape, right? So all the other houses that all the other single family houses that are on the street or duplexes, they want that neighborhood feel, right? They didn't want the, they don't want to see a big box.
Nick: They want something that looks like a large home. So I spent a couple of days doing some research and doing, we did some sketches and we were now like, because of the narrowness of the footprint of the lot, we're going to have to stack the three units. And we're gonna have to make this look like a house.
Nick: So we have this big porch. We, and, and it really does give a, you'd have to look twice. Are, are
Nino: these are sketches that I'm seeing on a Is is that, no, that's something else. That's something else. Yeah. Sorry. It won't be bad if you actually can provide like a link. Okay. In this podcast, and Danny, let's provide to the elevation, get you that information.
Nino: This way they can take a peak, 6,000 wards. So yeah, it won't be better, you know, to kinda see it. Where is that thing located, how it looks like? You
Nick: know what, Paul and I were just there. Um. Everything's framed out plumbing, electricals going on. Um, we did a drone video, which we should also put on social media.
Nick: We can,
Paulie: we can provide some of those images as well. Yeah. But
Nino: does this run means that you're going to start more towards that direction or, or there was just like a, see how this kind of pilot project and see how it's going to perform. And then you're going to decide later on. That's a good question.
Ryan: So right now we'll finish this up and then we'll, we'll get it rented.
Ryan: We'll see what the. time commitment is with our portfolio for, so my wife's helping a lot more with the real estate, um, but the longterms typically flow to me. So we'll see what the time commitment is on this and we'll see what we'll look into next year to see eventually where we want to get, if we want to add more, but like longterm, you know, one of my things that I want to do is I want to provide affordable housing, assisted, sustainable, affordable housing in general.
Ryan: So, outside the W 2 job, which might go for the next five years. I want to build that on ramp into real estate of, okay, we've got this portfolio, but I'd like to start working with some of the, you know, affordable rental groups in the area and start getting into it full time. So in the next, it might, might not be in the next year.
Ryan: It might be in five years that we kind of step more into this. Um, Because there's always going to be in Columbus, Columbus has got to go is grown by a million plus people over the next You know 10 20 years, whatever it is, so it might be a little late to the game, but By then we'll be we'll have the time or i'll have the time to get more involved So it's a long term plan just might not be next year
Nick: gosh.
Nick: I I really want to just jump into that topic about Um when when when is the good time to leave your job to go full time into real estate, but that's another podcast So you're mentioning
Nino: sorry go ahead No, he ran mentioned it was like you and your wife. You're actually like a spearheading to this business That's actually your business.
Nino: It's like a two two people family thing going on You Yep. Yeah.
Ryan: So this going back to the streetscapes, uh, what you're saying, the city, the area commission and the city of Columbus wanted that affordable housing was, Hey, as long as they approve it, you have your variances split off. You have your address.
Ryan: We're good. What you're asking with the going back to that question, they wanted a lot more paperwork. So I've dealt with lenders before and it's been, you know, this is the same process every time. I had to change my operating agreement of my company. Like, rewrite the standard template I had used with my lawyer many times, and had to change it.
Ryan: And I was like, so we went through that, that was an interesting process. And it, I don't, actually when I read it, I'm like, I don't even know what this really says anymore. But it meets their requirements.
Nick: I see what you're saying. That's why we have lawyers? Yeah, right, right,
Ryan: right. So, um, it was, that was very interesting.
Ryan: Uh, The process, you know, they asked for more documentation, but that was it. It was really the operating agreement change. That was the more required, um, that was the only really surprised. Everything else was pretty much the same thing. And then I'm trying to think, is there anything else they really asked for?
Ryan: Not off the top of my head. That was, that was it. And the fast forward to. The first, you know, going through the draw process with the lender has the first draw was a challenge. Um, there was to
Nick: see some type of progress. They wanted to
Ryan: see progress. And I'd worked with hard money lenders and private lenders before.
Ryan: And then everyone does it differently, but they want it more documentation. After we got through the first one, the second was, was a walk in the park, but it was us learning and me learning what they needed to see while also some of the nuances of our project. So it's been actually, I mean, honestly, they've been.
Ryan: For a quasi government, they've been extremely great to deal with. And so, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm a small government kind of person, you know, let the people figure out the problems and solve them because we're the closest. But this, this government working with private enterprise with affordable housing, like it's, it looks like it works really well.
Ryan: And they are Very like they're pleasant to work with. Like I can call them and they'll call me back instead of putting me on a like a hotline or something. Right. And I know who I'm talking to and, and their understanding and they try to help. Like they're good people. And that's, what's kind of nice to give a good face to the government.
Nick: I love that. Well, I do want to pick Paul's brain about some of our construction methods that we went with, with like those floor trusses and stuff that really, I guess the best way to describe it was you even told me this the other day, which I love when we, when I first walked into the space. And I'm gonna let you, who comp, remember when you told me this story, was it your father in law or?
Nick: Yep. Yep. And what did
Ryan: he say when he walked into the space? So, um, excuse me, I don't go to the property very often, so I treat all my assets like I'm a, like I'm an out of state investor. So I don't go to stuff very often. Brilliant. But my father, uh, father in law had asked, he's in, so he, he's in real estate, or does, has some real estate, some small stuff.
Ryan: Yep. And the reason I do stuff where I treat it like an out of state investor is because My wife's view of her dad being gone He was an electrician and he would be gone on the weekends and nights doing working on their rental So when we started this journey, that was don't do that. Like this is the one rule.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah And she'll admit today like I just kind of balance that
Nino: doesn't exist in nick's world. Yeah
Ryan: so, um Going down that uh, and so he he asked to go to the property Walk to the property and they walk in And the first thing out of my father in law and my step, uh, mother in law is wow. This is really big Like it's like you walk in and because because of I think it was your idea nick The nine foot ceilings changed the feel of it completely because they're like, oh we thought it would be kind of tight and small And I mean in some of the bedrooms are smaller They're they're what they used to build in the 60s and 70s and 80s like they're they're that size home, right?
Ryan: um Those nine foots changed everything. That was their first thing. And Nick, when Nick and Paul walked in, I got this feels so big. And I was like, I got to call them because they said the exact same thing.
Nick: Yeah, we, we, um, so we can only go 35 foot high. And I think that's one of the things they pushed back on.
Nick: They didn't want us to go above that. So we couldn't ask for more height on the structure. So basically what that means is we have a small footprint. We need to make it feel bigger than what it is. So we're letting we're putting in lots of windows to let in lots of natural light. We're raising the ceiling height to nine foot on every for every apartment
Nino: And
Nick: what we did on the base on the I call it the basement unit.
Nick: It's not a basement unit on the sub terrain unit. We recessed that down as little as we had to, to meet our max height.
Nino: Because max size goes from the grade up to
Nick: the Yeah. So that first floor is actually only what, like four foot down. We have a few stairs that go down in that first unit. So there's still like decent sized windows.
Nick: You'll see the ground, you know, like. But it's not a basement feel right, so you still have those large windows that you have
Nino: three story structure Yeah, and three apartments on each of them on separate separate. That is correct.
Nick: Every apartment has its own. Oh nice I see. Oh, there it is Paul. Yeah So, um, I'll talk about how we pulled off getting cuz well there with all these utilities and all the Aside,
Paulie: aside from the other height issues, right?
Paulie: Cause typically in a house you have higher ceilings down low and then a little bit shorter up above. Right? So like Nick said, we wanted to maximize the feeling of the space. So high ceilings in every single floor, right? Every single unit. The other thing was we wanted flexibility to do whatever, anywhere and not have to worry about how we're doing stuff with you know, traditional framing where it's like dimensional lumber for your floor choice, stuff like that.
Paulie: So we actually did, um, a trust system to basically span the whole thing. So nothing inside of the space is load bearing
Nino: from wall to wall, from
Nick: wall to wall, exterior, exterior, exterior. And now it has the space to run all of our mechanical electrical plumbing. It also was not, yeah, it wasn't I joy.
Paulie: So it was an actual trust.
Paulie: So you can run whatever in between as you needed. So everything's just running as it needs to, and then they just button it up and on the floor plan you can do whatever you want, it doesn't matter because none of it's load bearing. So
Nick: now we don't have soffits. We don't have any unique bump outs and it's, everything is a true nine foot in each unit.
Nick: Because you're running,
Nino: you're running all the installation through the webs. That's good. And, and plus I think that these trusses are not that hugely expensive these days in comparison to regular lumber. Well,
Nick: no, that because lumber's gone up. I mean, dimensional lumber has come down now at this point, but when we were having the conversation, it was like a no brainer.
Nick: And even now the cost still, the offset, um, was well worth it in my opinion. Yeah.
Paulie: Great. Yeah. But I think, yeah, that was one of the unique things. The other, the other thing challenge on this project was just the fire ratings, right? Because you have units that are stacked on top of each other. We had a shaft that connected everything for certain utilities to run through, right?
Paulie: So that each unit could have their own power and, you know, access to plumbing and stuff like that. So we had a shaft that was incorporated that also had to be a certain fire rating a certain way. So that was some of the challenges, but you know, more unique to what we were doing.
Nino: Do you also have The rate, like exterior walls, this one is closer to the property line.
Paulie: We had the exterior walls rated as well.
Nick: Not only that, but we had two entrances, one, um, exclusive entries to the first, to the lowest unit, and then we had, uh, another entry that looks like a, uh, uh, single family porch that goes up to, uh, kind of an entryway that leads to the other two units,
Nino: each unit has separate entrance,
Nick: but we had to fire rate.
Nick: All those entry points and the overhang as well, which is egress escape. Yeah. And that's commercial standards. So there, there's some things on this project that they said, we realized this is residential. You were going to be held to commercial standards on these specific items. Yeah. So that was,
Nino: that was the one with like a three bedrooms that they actually ask you to, to be treated as a commercial because of the complexity,
Paulie: the highest special item fire rating wise was the porch.
Paulie: And I'm like, what? They wanted the
Nino: porch
Paulie: fire rated.
Nino: Oh, because it was a part of the egress. Yeah. So I, so
Paulie: I had to do research on like, okay, how do you, you know, fire resistant build for a porch and open porch
Nino: that you're asking me a question about. So I was looking
Paulie: out for like, you know, California, like wildfires and stuff like that.
Paulie: Forest fires, like how do they provide a rating for an open porch structure? But you know, it's just, it's so yeah,
Nino: because it's, it's the exit passageway. Yeah. That's, that's what he's asking in a code. Well, that,
Paulie: and like Nick said, there's a partial submerged unit too, which actually goes down under the porch partially.
Paulie: So it's like when you're coming out of that unit, you're technically coming out underneath the porch above. So they wanted everything to be as fire resistant as it could be.
Nino: So I'm guessing you guys setting for this partially submerged, you have all these windows, wells, and all this fun stuff. I see what you're saying.
Nino: Good. Cool. Interesting.
Paulie: Yeah. Next time, get a bigger lot. It'll be easier, right? More and more, the
Nino: code's changing. Yeah, the code is changing. Yeah, the code is getting a little bit more strict. Yeah, that's what's In some areas, it's actually getting a little bit more loose. Yeah. Like, uh, occupant load for a business use.
Nick: Oh, I think we're, we're starting to celebrate density, which is wonderful. Yeah. That means City. Yeah. .
Paulie: Yeah. And over. Yeah. I mean, overall the lot was 30 foot wide and the building itself is only 20 feet wide. So, like Nick said, it's very narrow and pretty much stretches all the way back, you know, pretty far into the July.
Paulie: So
Ryan: the opening is when, uh, the hope is, uh, early July. Early July is when it'll be done. Yeah. I see. And, uh,
Nick: right now we're in April.
Ryan: Yep.
Nino: Okay. Great. Getting pretty excited. Yeah. Three
Ryan: months then. Yep. So. Yep. Um. But yeah, it's interesting as Nick and I've talked, like we had to go through the variance process and all that, but the city's got the consultant came in many years ago to update the code base, right?
Ryan: That's been the talk of, and now they're sending all this stuff about how they're changing the code and getting feedback. And all the leaders are basically like, we can't have not in my backyard anymore, like approaches. And, uh, so it'll be interesting when it comes out next year, I guess when it hits and it's finalized and all that.
Ryan: If. What we did wouldn't require variances anymore.
Nino: Yeah.
Nick: Probably not. But I mean, you're a pioneer and pioneers pave the way.
Nino: And you know, the, the trick with the code is you cannot, even though you know the new code is coming, that code will not become the law till that day when they actually adopt it. So everything that happens before that needs to be by the old code.
Nick: I would also argue that. the time we had to invest and, and we've worked with you on, you know, I really, I was, I was fascinated by the whole process too. So I was just like, I want to do this with you.
Paulie: Yeah. But when you like called us the one day and you're like, I can't, we're pausing, like the lumber prices have gone up too high.
Paulie: Like it's not feasible, blah, blah, blah. And then Nick called me and I'm like, what? Oh, come on. Yes. I mean, it was, it was one of our projects that we were invested in and definitely we're excited about.
Nick: But I feel like you've, you've learned a ton on this project. And. Despite all the hurdles that you had to go over the 2.
Nick: 5 percent interest rate makes up for it.
Ryan: Yeah. On the hurdles we, uh, so the site plan, which is what you use to get your variances approved, right? That's where we asked it. It's been approved three different times because one is we had an initial site plan, which was approved back in 2021. Well, when I did the lot split, you don't have to do a survey when you do a site plan.
Ryan: So the action where the actual existing property is are the the current house was different than what about a foot off? Yeah, it was about happens. It does. Yep. So we go back to the variance
Nick: process. So we referenced the auditor site and it says it right there. It's not 100 percent accurate. Exactly. And we put that on our documents.
Nick: But
Nino: yeah, but in this very tight because of the survey again. Yeah, it's just the sweet to do it. Then
Ryan: we did. So we did that site. We got it approved in June and then we had to get it approved again. And, um, in 2023 for, uh, no, sorry. And 20 later on in 2022, we got approved for a third time because the windows.
Ryan: Our, so our elevations on our site plan, the windows changed or move just a little bit, just a little bit. And like, you got to get a variance for that.
Nick: Because originally when we did the initial design for the zoning, you know, we didn't design the interior. We did the shell.
Nino: Oh, you just did this shell package.
Nino: Mean, we
Nick: did, we did an interior sketch up. But, but things, but then things start moving, adjust and adjusting.
Nino: You have to move window a little bit. And I'm like,
Nick: oh, we could put mechanicals there. Oh, this would make this space bigger. Mm-Hmm, . And, you know, you get inspired later on. And then we're like, oh,
Nino: but could you actually just reapply through the, like a revision of the document?
Nino: Or you have to start the new application process?
Nick: No, no, we just, it is just a revision. Just a revision. Oh, okay. But, but because of the uniqueness of this specific project, they made us go back for an additional variant. Yep. So it pinged it back to zoning. No kidding.
Paulie: Yeah. With, with any variance, when you have your approval, when you go to submit your plans for the permit, you submit based on the approval from zoning and it has to, it's like general conformance.
Paulie: It has to have general conformance to what was approved and technically there's a little bit of wiggle room, but I mean like it's not a very clear, it's, it's up to their interpretation. So they feel it's changed enough. Great. You're going back through to get approved again. Right.
Nino: Go back to the variance again.
Paulie: Yeah. I see. And
Ryan: this is what I've heard from,
Paulie: um, like we've had people where it's like they were approved to have in a garage and they removed the garage. No problem. But it's like, again, like windows for some reason, they're sensitive to elevation stuff. So if you change the windows enough. Then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, you know, or like a board and bat to like a horizontal siding.
Paulie: Oh, well, the elevation is different. It's like, all I did was change from board and bat to, you know, and they're like, Nope, you gotta, we're not approving it. So
Ryan: this is where the relationship game in real estate comes in and even comes into play in the government entity. So a buddy of mine who works at one of the professional engineering companies around here, whenever they go to do variances or anything like that, they have a person they hire.
Ryan: He helped stand up the whole Columbus zoning department and Though he's shared that they will, they won't have to, they, they, they avoid some of the hoops that I went through just because we were, we were all learned. It's the relationship. So like it's, it's the conformity you mentioned. Sometimes they'll flex it for you and sometimes the flex it the other way.
Ryan: Cause there are people at the end of the day. And yes, like it's, it's a, it's It's not a cut and dry decision. Relationship is the key. Like always, you know, even though we went through this for the third time, you know, always go with honey versus vinegar. Donuts, donuts. You try to be nice, even though you might be frustrated about it and it's taking time.
Ryan: Like get your everyone respect, because at the day, they could stop the whole thing. Oh yeah,
Nino: and you're not going to get anywhere. We have examples when the owners, Go ballistic towards the city and officials and they gonna keep sending them inspection on every corner and every turn. It was like a, that just one moment when he's supposed to pause and think for when they say, when you get mad, don't write email the next 24 hours and just wait till this because otherwise it's just going to aggravate.
Nick: We've had a couple of projects in the past where we will copy our clients to any communications with the city. But for whatever reason something would get delayed or it's taking longer than the client would like the client responds in kind And then create and we're like I give them a phone call and we're like we're gonna take care of this We go down to the city.
Nick: We hash it out You know politely with them exactly you have to go that route if you have to you start pushing on them They're they got a million things to do and they'll just put you right to the back of the line and say we don't have To do anything
Nino: Under they're under stuff. Yeah, and as ryan mentioned, they're just humans.
Nino: Yeah. Yep. So You Great. That was, that was pretty great.
Nick: Well, we're going to have to take a tour of this. Maybe, maybe what we do is I think
Nino: that would be actually a good idea, actually, to actually take a tour of that. Yeah.
Nick: When is this going to air, Danny? Oh,
Ryan: gosh. We have a few about a month.
Nick: Alright, so this will air in about a month.
Nick: So let's try to, well, you're not going to be quite done in a month. Maybe we'll wait until the finished product and we can do just a, yeah, additional link. Exactly. Yeah. I think we can
Paulie: post the link afterwards. It'll be so, such a cool, cool.
Nick: I'm curious for the two of you who aren't in affordable housing, what is your take on this?
Nick: Is this something that you'd consider now moving forward, hearing everything that he's, that Ryan's been able to do here?
Paulie: I mean, given the product that's available financially, To help the investment. I mean, it's like Nino said earlier. It's a no brainer Why would you not take that product and use it to invest and develop?
Paulie: You know your community for for the benefit of the community
Nick: and I've been looking into that the interest rate I think they're raising it a little bit But I think this is gonna be a program that's gonna be available for the next several years Columbus really wants to like do right By housing and I'm, I'm, I'm excited for everything
Nino: and everything starts with the housing.
Nino: You know what I'm saying? If you really want to create some big issues in the communities. First you have to create the housing so people can actually be treated as a people, you know what i'm saying And they can actually afford afford this and take it like almost like an ownership of that So I see the because the firm that i'm working now currently They're like they have pretty developed like a role in affordable housing and I just see how this It's just keep growing and, and, and Ryan mentioned there is other entities and groupations and like groups in, in a city that are actually, do you maybe, maybe just like give us a couple of these names that, uh, they're involved in, into, into the
Ryan: process.
Ryan: So one of them is the Columbus Metro Housing Authority is a much larger, is different than most housing authorities. Shout CMHA. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think it's WOTA. I think is the other big one. Yeah. They're an affordable housing developer as well. They'll do, uh, they'll build stuff and I believe it goes rent.
Ryan: They'll rent it as well. But those two are kind of, um, that I've been referenced to. They're spearheading
Nino: the effort.
Nick: I just, I also want to point out, and I'm going to reiterate this, um, I'm not the type of investor that wants to buy up an entire block. Now there are some strategies where you're like, you can create the comp and then, and, and listen, there's some, there's some advantages to doing that.
Nick: But I love being in a neighborhood where we have a majority of homeowners because that value is already there. I don't have to create anything. People are taking care of their houses. It's a community. Um, I'm not a big fan of rental, Developments. I'm a fan of, I mean,
Nino: look, look what actually, even though it's, it's a good cause of this, like a gravity project that that's actually located in the Franklin town.
Nino: Exactly. But apartments there are tiny and super expensive. You almost get like a something opposite to to like a word you initially
Nick: Well, you're you're also a family man. Yeah, I think about it from a young professional standpoint They have a they have restaurants coffee shops pool It's not a generational housing by any means But it might be right for people who young people who want to like get into the city stay for a year or two Yeah,
Nino: but I have a lot of young people in my firm.
Nino: They cannot afford to live in these apartments and they, and they have decent, you know what I'm saying? So that's, I think I'm almost like a more towards the Ryan's approach. And then you really like, uh, can create something, especially like, uh, first you respect the scale of the neighborhood, which is, I think, key.
Nino: Instead of being these giant blocks, the people. They have amenities, but on the end they turn it to the luxurious apartments. That's what's true. I'm trying to say,
Nick: but all new builds are now being required to have a percentage of affordable housing. Yeah.
Nino: Mm-Hmm. . So, but yeah, which I think is a good thing.
Nino: I, I, I, I think it's, it's, it's a step in really right direction and especially I'm, I'm pleased with the fact that they now give the smaller developers, not the big one. That they actually can invest in affordable housing. I think that's a key. That's
Nick: an excellent point because These larger developers are not interested in doing a triplex No, and I would I would love to see more of that so and this is giving an opportunity now and
Nino: that's where it's actually remain like a Retain that original look of that neighborhood.
Nino: I
Paulie: agree.
Nino: Yeah
Paulie: Yeah. Aside from the, um, foundation stuff that we had to do too, which was also special to your project. Um, you're also doing something different with the parking too, as well, right? You're not doing a traditional surface back in the parking area. So, I mean, this, yeah, this project, Nick, was a great project to have Ryan as a guest.
Ryan: So, um, when we went to get the building permit that started last year in 2023. Um, you know, we, I think Nick and I had talked and I talked to my contractor. We thought it was going to take a couple months to get the building permit. Like that's it, right? We got the, we got the drawings, we're ready to go. We have our site plan.
Ryan: And the first thing they asked for is a site compliance plan,
Nick: which is a commercial requirement in most cases. Some new builds do require it depending on what neighborhood you're in. But,
Nino: but especially if you're like in a, in a hardcore of the city, they may ask you for a site compliance.
Ryan: So they asked for that.
Ryan: And, you know, we've worked, this is where I think Paul, you got a lot of part of where I stepped into this was later in
Paulie: the process was
Ryan: last year. Yeah. So it was, it was a fun, there was some ups and downs. I think there's times where I had to trade off from, you know, I was the, the client who I was, I was trying to be polite and ask, you know, trying to like get things moving.
Ryan: But Nick and Paul did a great job of kind of building their relationships with the engineering, the planning department to kind of get things moving along, knowing that they're under a lot of stress and they're under staff. I think that helped a lot. But part of the site compliance plan is we're getting, we got Nick and I talked a lot about this.
Ryan: We were kind of moving into this commercial and I built a triplex to do residential coding because when you go to four plex, it goes commercial. Talk to Nick, talk to GCs. Like everyone said. Try to stay below four because it gets a lot harder at four and there's a lot more requirements One of them is stormwater, which I had never I didn't actually didn't know what it meant Like I had no idea this was a thing.
Ryan: We got pulled into stormwater requirements because the size of the the footprint of the property plus Are of the actual building, plus the footprint of the sidewalk and the parking pad brought us into a requirement for
Nino: stormwater permeable surface.
Ryan: Correct? No, luckily, we didn't have found out. At first we thought I had to go higher.
Ryan: Civil engineer, civil engineer to do a stormwater plan for me, which I found out was extremely expensive and takes about 20, 000 about T it was about eight to 10 grand just for the drawing. Just, just to do, just to do the stormwater plan and the time associated to his four to five months for approval.
Nino: Oh my God.
Ryan: So we asked, Hey, is there a way to, I don't know. We know how it came up with the city, but the stormwater engineer said you could do this. And I was like, came out, I just was asking, is there a way we could avoid this? And he's like, well, you could do a permeable surface and that's where,
Paulie: and the city of Columbus is very particular with what surfaces you can have for parking.
Paulie: Right. So really there's only like, A couple of proof surfaces and that's it. Concrete, asphalt, and two, one or two
Nick: very specific permeable pavers. Like you can't use just any permeable paver.
Paulie: I came up, we did a little research. We pulled cut sheets together for it. So, and then, you know, sent them over and got everything approved.
Paulie: That is excellent story actually. So yeah, like I said, Nick, this project has a lot of unique, special characteristics that we had to put in place to get everything over these hurdles.
Nino: Small, but complicated. Yeah. So we
Ryan: avoided the storm water playing completely. So I told the engineer, Hey, we can, don't have to do this anymore.
Ryan: And then all we have to do is spend a little extra on the parking lot. Awesome. So now that we got this kind of figured out. What's what's the what's next what's next finish this off get it rented take a break. That's what he mentioned earlier Just think yeah, the other thing is it's like trying to start start building some on ramps with affordable, uh, Companies that are around here.
Ryan: So like columbus metro housing who i've been kind of talking with since they were also one of their customers How do I start helping them with some of their initiatives they've got going on while still? Having my full time job. So kind of building that on ramp to you know, maybe hopefully long term Um, get an opportunity with them, um, when, you know, our financial, uh, some of our financial stuff changes a little bit more in our favor.
Nick: Now I totally get it. And we've, we've actually been meeting for lunch for the last
Ryan: couple of years.
Nick: Has it been that long? It's
Ryan: gotta be. It's gotta be at least, I think it's over a year for sure. If not, we're coming out to
Nick: great taco Tuesday.
Ryan: Yep. Taco Tuesday. But the reason that
Nick: I, besides our friendship, I just, I like hearing about.
Nick: So you wanting to move the needle for mankind, like it's kind of one of my core values too, is I want to leave the world better than I found it. And you're, you're set on it. You, you bring it up a lot more in conversation than I do. So I just love the fact that this is part of your mantra,
Ryan: you know,
Nick: you're,
Ryan: you're North Star.
Ryan: So I'll say, uh, where this all started was one of my friends who's in it referenced a book. It's called happy city. Happy city. I don't know if you get any of your, uh, if you, if you all like urban planning, not heard of it, but I'm definitely going to add it to the list. What it is, it's based on how to build cities so people are happy and, but it talks a lot about density.
Ryan: It talks a lot about government, private working together. It talks about, uh, and why you want people from different, I'll just call it like different income levels. You want them mixing because they'll, they'll learn from each other and you'll, someone will move up or, or, you know, you'll give opportunities, but they talk about how to do it and what cities are doing.
Ryan: What all comes like to kind of add up talks about how to do Um public transportation like it's a really great read but it hits a lot in Europe does a lot of this already just on how they do it but what it leads to is you build these communities of different people different ideas and they They become happier because they're closer together.
Ryan: There's densities. They're shared amenities. They're shared common spaces and They just generally Enjoy life, which leads to healthcare, all that, like all these things that we just, just, oh, we'd solve it some other way, but it gets into this. It talks about how you can only do this with government and private working together because it's not affordable for private to do it alone.
Ryan: Dare I say it's more of a balanced
Nick: community?
Paulie: Yes,
Nino: it is. And
Paulie: like anything, right? You want that diversity there. I mean, like, oh, I'm going to only invest in single family homes and that's it, right? And that's, forget about stock market and whatever other investment, I'm just doing this. It's like, no, you sprinkle, you sprinkle everything
Nino: around.
Nino: My core understanding and also when you look through the histories, Is diversity bring the prosperity and, and, and, and that's, that's a key for a humankind. Honestly, we really have to work more on ourself and proving ourselves. Not just improving machines to make us lazy and be doing nothing, but it was like a, no, honestly, I think that's, that's a core thing.
Nino: We have to start investing in ourselves in the humanity.
Nick: I agree. Danny, can we put a note in our notes for happy city? I have a link to that. Yes, please.
Nino: Yeah. I definitely going to read. That's my read next read. Well, I could
Nick: keep talking forever, but Ryan, I think we're going to, is there any, any closing words you'd like to say about yourself or anything else to investors out there listening?
Ryan: No, um, I think I'd only say is like, so this has been a project that I've had since 2021 that I started and now it's 2024 and it's still not done. Like, whatever you do, build one bridge at a time. Like just stay focused on it. Just keep executing. You don't have to bet, have the best plan. I mean, I didn't have the best plan on this.
Ryan: I had some numbers. I didn't really know what I was building or had an idea of what I was building, but I just like, Hey, I'm going to take one step at a time. So the numbers today, what are they, what are they shaping out to be and are you happy
Nick: with them?
Ryan: Yeah. So the numbers are, are looking really good.
Ryan: Um, so this is, I would call this a, It's a day's market. This is a unicorn deal. They don't exist.
Nick: That means it's really good. You
Ryan: guys. That's a home run Yeah, it's a home run. It's probably This asset in general is the hands down the best asset we have the one the single family is doing the best we have And then this you know with the lending That we're getting with your guys's help in general like I can't say enough about the relationships that we built through this None of this would be possible to achieve what we're doing because like I I can't I can't buy people's money I can't go buy a new, uh, a rehab property or a fixer upper and get whatever we're getting out of this.
Ryan: So it's, and what's great is, so that's financially, it's great for us, but it's also, we're able to provide that product to the, to the, so we're able to charge. You know, when I talk about these numbers and it's really, it's a home run for us, we're able to charge 1500 per unit and still make money on this cashflow year one.
Ryan: So like, that's, that's the beauty of what affordable housing trust, which you guys did for us. Like, I can't say enough about our ones, like all this, the relationships made this possible. It wasn't just us or me.
Nino: I love it. I love it. Yeah. We're
Paulie: excited to see it done.
Nino: Well, thank you, Ryan. It
Nick: was, it was a great story.
Nick: Yeah. I had fun. Thanks for coming. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, we're going to wrap it up here, but we'll see you in two weeks.
Paulie: This has been the ARC Fluence podcast. As always, you can get more information and additional content on arcfluence. com. Please subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review.
Paulie: We'd love to hear from you.