Episode Seven: How to Navigate the Zoning and Permitting Process
This episode dives into the essentials of zoning and permits in Columbus, Ohio. Sharing insights from personal experiences and professional practice, the team highlights the importance of working with a professional to avoid common pitfalls. They provide practical tips on navigating city regulations and streamlining the permitting process for local builders and developers.
Nick: Welcome to another episode of Arcfluence, where we talk about how design impacts the way we live, work, and invest. I'm Nick Karakaian your host, and here's my co-hosts Paul Fatkins and Nino Samardzic
Nino: Samardzic, yeah, I'm good, man, I'm good. How you guys doing today?
Paul: Good Saturday. No complaints.
Nino: Yeah, I'm actually doing good doing good, but you know, I cannot help myself but noticing that you are looking pretty sharp today, man.
Nino: Look at yeah, I like the color. That's red there.
Nick: Oh, you're talking about the shirt... Do I not normally look sharp?
Nino: Scuderia, Ferrari! Nick is joining the club.
Nick: I am a Formula One fan.
Nino: I am too.
Nick: Yeah. Ferrari is going to take it this year. Yep. Maybe not.
Nick: But I'm still going to root for my team.
Nino: Have you heard the story about Carl Sainz? That he actually had to have his appendix removed.
Nick: And he had a replacement driver today. Yeah. He has a young driver.
Nino: Exactly. Lucky kid. He just kind of like a landed, like in a very hot seat in a P3 practice. And he has to do the clock, an hour to jump in a car that is 12 to 14 seconds faster per lap.
Nino: In comparison to Formula 2 that he was driving just like at two hours ago. Yeah, night and day.
Nick: Night and day. Night and day. That's going to make some fun conversation at the bar.
Nino: But, by the way, I actually heard the story that, uh, back in the days when it was like a different neck and different, uh, uniform that he actually had like a go to the process of the Europeanics being removed too.
Nick: I have had a accident. I'm going to get some criticism for that. That's not how you say it. No, I've had my appendix removed. Um, yeah, it was actually during basic training in the air force, um, during warrior week, I'm like, I'm in a mud hole and we're training, crawling on the ground...
Nino: so that's a warrior week.
Nino: So that's actually the most intense training that you have any in the military.
Nick: When you're in the air force, in the air force.
Nino: Yeah.
Nick: Yeah. And, um, basically like, I just had some stomach pains. I thought nothing of it. And, um, you know, of course my sergeant's like, "suck it up buttercup!"
Nino: Tell me this experience.
Nick: This was the worst pain I've ever experienced. I mean, it felt like someone was just stabbing me and like, I almost couldn't breathe.
Nino: So you're literally like in, in, in like a muddy trench, uh, trying to perform to the best. You have like a Sergeant yelling at you above your head, suck it up buttercup.
Nino: And you're like, uh, guys, I'm in a real pain here...
Nick: I didn't eat for a whole day. And then after about, uh, Like the next day when I, I couldn't, I didn't go to, I didn't sleep. Yeah. I didn't sleep. Jeez. And I'm just like, all right guys. Um, no, seriously. Um, I need to go to the hospital right now. Otherwise I'm going to die.
Nick: Yeah. Um, yeah, I had surgery that day. So how
Nino: So like anambulance came in and...
Nick:Took me away on a stretcher...
Paul: Oh yeah. Everyone was like, oh, he can't handle anything. He handle anything. Nick, Nick is like, guys, I wanna give the medics a chance here. , they got, they gotta train too, you know?
Paul: They gotta train, carry the guys out on the stretchers.
Nick: I was, I was really bummed because I, I was like the second fastest runner in my flight. I did like the third most pushups. I, I had one of the highest scores on our tests. Yeah. And I ha I, I couldn't graduate my class. So I got, I got, I actually went home for 30 days on a convalescence leave.
Nick: Mm-Hmm. to heal after my surgery. Yeah. And had to come back and finish basic training.
Nino: You have to go through the basic training again. Not all over. Not all
Nick: over it. Uhhuh. I had a repeat warrior week and a couple, but you have
Nino: really solid excuse. It was a real thing.
Nick: Yeah. Still bummer. Still. I don't know if I call an excuse, but Yeah.
Nick: Yeah. You know an excuse. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting story, man. Well, let's talk about Yes. Arc fluence. Yeah. Episode seven. Um, permitting. Right. How, how we submit permits. This is going to be more general information, but some of the stuff might be specific to the Columbus, Ohio area. Just FYI,
Paul: we had a dry run of this too.
Paul: You want to mention coin
Nick: coin central Ohio investors network. If you guys are in the Columbus area, we meet every third Tuesday. Um, it's a lot of fun. We just talk about real estate. We have guest speakers and we network.
Nino: Yep. And, and presentation was great. Uh, it was very engaging and we receive a lot of questions.
Nino: Majority of the question is, do I need permit for that? Or, or can I do without permit? And this is all like in case to case basis. So we just have to like, uh, let all our people that are not really familiar with the process to encourage people to actually talk to the department, to the building department or a zoning department.
Nino: And, uh, just to get to like a feedbacks from them directly. So they know, like if you're doing something, something minor, you're probably not going to need the, the full permit, or if you're doing something, it may actually trigger the permit, but always talk to your local jurisdiction before trying to do something.
Nino: Especially more colossal, like a renovation or addition. So you don't be surprised by the inspection. Yeah.
Paul: that conversation too. Yep. There's a list too, that I provided. So Danny will put a link up to the list of, and this is for Columbus. Uh, particularly for Columbus, but in general, most jurisdictions is the same type of thing.
Paul: So it lists out, you know, Oh, if you're doing a room addition, then obviously, yes, you need a permit, but you also need plans required because some things you can get a permit without having plans. So this list basically gives you a little cheat sheet and we'll put it up, uh, as a link to basically download for the city of Columbus.
Nick: Awesome. So I thought we'd go through like just the basic kind of. Process in chronological order so we can give like a general expectation, um, of what that permitting process looks like and how long it takes typically, and then we can go back and just talk about all the things which I'm sure we'll have 900 rabbit holes we can go down.
Nick: Oh, jeez, yes. Alright, so if, if we're pulling a permit, um, let's say that most, in most circumstances you're going to require architectural drawings. Yes. Now, in a lot of municipalities, they don't necessarily need to be. Stamped for residential projects. Um, of course we stamp all of our work as a licensed firm in the state of Ohio.
Nick: All commercial projects though, require a stamp and they also require engineering. Um, so you're going to have your mechanical electrical plumbing and in some cases, civil engineering, um, along with your architectural sets. And once you have those drawings and they're ready to go, you need to submit to your local jurisdiction.
Nick: Um, I know if it's a commercial projects we, we can do digitally now and almost everywhere. Um, for residential, there's still some municipalities that are requiring two physical copies. Yes, like
Nino: Upper Arlington requires two physical copies. I think that now, uh, Columbus is fully electronical. They're finally, especially with this new adoption, started March 1st.
Nino: Uh, I have just conversation with them two weeks ago and they, they, they actually announced that they are like a fully electronical now.
Nick: That's amazing. I also saw that they raised all their prices. They did. Inflation is hitting them too. So inflation
Nino: is hitting everybody. But they are, they
Nick: are including like inspections, multiple, they used to conclude to, and now if you have like a new build, I think it's like a thousand dollars.
Nick: For the permit, but it includes like six inspections, which is kind of cool. And usually that's the price of that's almost the price of six inspections.
Nino: And, and I, I could have stood to the, to the, to Emmett Emmett and his team. They are, I have like a, a working, a really big project now. So we have bi weekly meetings with them.
Nino: Very nice people. They're there to help. Awesome. Honestly, I agree with you. Yeah. I do
Nick: a preliminary design review before we submit anything. Yes. When we go, I can
Nino: also, if, if like, if you guys building something, especially doing additional or new build, there is all this options to do like a preliminary review, so they can give you some feedbacks right away.
Nino: So it can go back to the drawing board, correct the stuff that you need, submit the drawings and wait for a response.
Nick: Okay. So we got our drawings. We're ready to submit. So, whether we have to do physical copies or not, we fill out the permit application and we submit it to the city. And then
Paul: they deny you because you haven't gone through zoning.
Nick: In some cases, like, they're together and in some cases they're separate. Yes. So, you do your preliminary design review, um, and they'll send it to zoning on your behalf. Yeah, they can actually do that.
Nino: So, uh, that's another thing is before we even start the process of the building permit, uh, the zoning is, is usually initial step just to make sure that what you're building is acceptable to be on that land.
Nino: So you have to see like a, what zoning options are they here. Also, there is an option if you want to build something a little bit more unique, that will be hugely beneficial for a community. You can apply for a variance and there is a big chance that variance will be approved.
Nick: Sure They're actually revamping all the zoning.
Nick: Yeah, and this is
Paul: where you really need, you know Again, I would recommend hiring somebody to help you through this process because professionalists again Sometimes it's part of the process, right? It's included it gets submitted by zoning along with the permit application other times It's not it's an entirely separate thing.
Paul: You go through that process first you get your zoning approval first And you know, especially if you have another um Department involved. Like the Victorian Village Commission. Exactly. I was just
Nino: gonna
Paul: say
Nino: that. Historical society thing. Yep.
Nick: Yep. So you'll need your certificate of appropriations just to submit before you can use zoning.
Nick: Before you can submit for permit. Yeah. Yep. And you'll know, like, you can easily check, I think, how many, how many, uh, commissions are in Columbus? Is there like five or six? I think there's five. Five. So if you're in one of those neighborhoods, then you're going to be, have to take an extra step, go through commissions.
Nick: Uh, and a lot of times those type of requirements, they're going to want to see the elevations. They're going to want to see like what materials you're using. Their whole concern is the look and feel and the preservation of the architecture on the street, like the curb appeal. Um, and then of course, you know, The higher cost of materials, like, um, certain types of windows, certain types of doors, certain types of shingles on your roof.
Nick: Um, hardy board siding rather than vinyl. We see a lot of those kind of requirements requests. And then, and I know in some cases we've had to go back multiple times.
Nino: Yeah. So I think you will be good to like a national, like a basic principles. What actually. What is, uh, regulated by zoning and what is actually regulated by the building department, like a building permit.
Nino: So like a, for a zoning, like a first thing you have to be sure you're a building in jurisdiction where you're allowed to build something. For example, you guys are going to see it, the map of the city. And you're going to see, like, if you go on a. For example, for Columbus, you go on the zoning map on their website, you can see all the different colors that tells you what zoning the certain neighborhood belongs and what you can build in that zone.
Nick: Now what if I have a lot that's zoned R1, but I want to do a duplex? I'm an investor and I want to maximize my cashflow.
Nino: So then you're going to apply for the variance and that's usually process that I will require you or not require, I will recommend you to hire the professionalist who can actually advise you on that.
Nick: Now that's something that we can also help with. Yes. Um, so obviously your architect and your, your, those firms do that work as well. It's an additional step, an additional service. Yes. Um, I'm, I'm, I think I can't remember off the top of my head, but there's, what's the cost for a variance application in general?
Nick: A couple hundred bucks.
Nino: Yes. It's not, it's not, it's usually the, the, but the one things about very application variance may actually sometimes include a hearing. So which you actually go in front of the public or your neighbors and you actually, you know, put your, and defend your position. Actually trying to.
Nino: To make the change because it's not only that sometimes it's like a different use group may you may need to do Sometimes you would like to go wider or higher than actually the zoning allows you
Nick: sure we did We had to get creative on a triplex and we had to sink it sub grade a couple of feet so we wouldn't Uh, peek out at that 35
Nino: exactly because you actually, you're actually going from the, from the grade level up.
Nino: So it doesn't matter how much you're going down in the ground, but I'd actually calculating from the grade level up. So yeah, that's like a one of good, good, good, uh, examples when you hire the summer professionalist, how you actually take, you can actually take the, the regulation in your advantage. Okay.
Paul: Okay.
Nick: So if we have to go through.
Paul: Yeah, I was going to say a lot of this stuff. Um, so there's also a link that will include to, there's a lot of reference materials that the city of Columbus, so like right, right there, you just mentioned rezoning, right? So there's a development guide, right? And it walks you through step by step what the rezoning process is.
Paul: Does it give a timeframe on that? Uh, it does. It literally, everything you could possibly think of, I'd have to look it up, but anyway, anything you can possibly think of, timing, cost, what steps are involved, um, if you have to go in front of a commission, if you have to go in front of a city council, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Paul: So let's just do a
Nick: general timeline for a simple residential project. Let's say plans, you know, for us to turn around a set of drawings takes us about three, three weeks. Okay. Um, and then we submit to zoning and that if, if we're doing an exterior work, we're going to have to submit to zoning if we're just doing an interior renovation, that's different.
Nick: We can go straight to department buildings. Yes. And we're of course, that means we're not in a commission
Nino: or if you, if you're not changing the use of the building, if you, for example, decide to like a turned a residential house into the, the, School. So, exactly.
Paul: Well, that's a whole different. Yeah, exactly.
Paul: So, time frame. Yes. Time frame. 90 to 120 days. That's the estimate that the city gives. And that's for
Nick: the whole
Paul: entire process? That's the whole entire rezoning process. Correct. Yeah.
Nick: So, if we're not rezoning, and we're just doing a renovation in a home, uh, the super, the, this is the easiest it gets. Yep. We do drawings in a couple of weeks and we get permit approval in a couple of weeks.
Nick: I mean, we can turn around in probably about a month.
Nino: I usually, yeah, usually like approval, they will tell you like it's a 30 days minimum, but on a smaller projects, you can get, get your actually, uh, if you're talking about
Paul: a variance, it's four to six weeks, four to six weeks for a variance. And again, I'm pulling all this right from that development guide.
Paul: We'll give a link to all this stuff.
Nick: Yeah. Depending on like. They give, they also give specifics on how long they have to get back to you. So if you email the city, um, if it's a residential project, they usually say two weeks before for us to respond. Yeah. Sometimes it's right away. Sometimes it's two weeks.
Nick: Um, people go on vacations, you know, I do know they're hiring a lot of new people and they're really, they're enforcing a lot of the code now that they haven't in past years. Yes. Um, I mean before it was a matter of focusing on safety, right? We're going to prove this if we think the framing and the safety components are all satisfied because we don't want anyone to get hurt, but now we're starting to see like energy efficiency.
Nick: Yes. The entire gambit of what the 2019 residential code calls for. They're enforcing.
Nino: So I will say like a two major, uh, Things that code trying to enforce, which, uh, which is, uh, well being and safety. So the people can actually, in case of the emergency can escape the property and save themselves and their family.
Nino: And therefore I would like to encourage, especially people who's planning to do like a long term rental, even shorter rental to make their property safe. For the occupants. And that's why you have to check all the safety, safety boxes. The second item is, as we know, all these global warming that's looming around our planet in our planet.
Nino: We're in a new,
Paul: we're in a new climate zone now.
Nino: Exactly. So it was like, uh, the, the second element, but. CDs and forcing and Cody's enforcing is, is, uh, energy efficiency of your envelope of your building. Yeah. So because I think buildings are kind of responsible for like over 50 percent of the carbon. It's a, yeah.
Nino: Yeah. So that's a huge number. Yeah. It's a very, very large amount. Yeah. Large amount. So, yeah, I
Paul: was gonna say, let's take a step back. So we've determined that. We need plans, right? We've talked through some of the zoning stuff, which can kind of come with your plan submission and, or before submitting, right?
Paul: So now we're kind of to the point where we actually submit the plans to the city. So, you know, what happens next? What's after the submission? So I'm the, I'm the one who
Nick: usually submits the plans for our clients. Um, I'll, I'll print everything up for us. We'll make sure that everything's good to go and approved by the client.
Nick: If the, in some cases we have to get an owner's affidavit, which is a simple process, it's just another piece of paper. And that's if they don't have a licensed contractor already. And typically if they own the house. Individually under their name or under an LLC that is 100 percent owned by them. They're able to pull the permit on without, without a licensed contractor, they can pull it themselves.
Nick: I can then submit the application on their behalf with an owner's affidavit. I'll, I'll go down to one 11 front street. I will get a pull a ticket. I'll wait about 15 minutes. I'll get a meeting with one of the plans examiners. He'll sit down, we'll look at it together. He'll ask any questions, concerns he has, I'll address them.
Nick: And then he says, great. If it needs to go to zoning, it goes to zoning. If it doesn't need to go to zoning, then, um, he'll send it directly to department of buildings for further review.
Paul: Yeah. And now this is for single family duplexes. Triplexes. What about when we get in four units? Four units is totally different.
Paul: Then we have to go to a different department. Well, not only a different department, it's not even the same code that we're using. There's a residential code of Ohio, and then there's the Ohio building code. And the OBC was just updated, and that's a whole nother ballgame now.
Nino: Yeah. It's all new ball game now, but this is good point.
Nino: That's one of the things
Paul: I was saying, like even the climate zone that you just mentioned, right? Like according to the new code, we're now in a different climate zone. We're no longer in zone 5. It's more
Nino: region code now, but this is really good, good, like a procedure that you like, uh, explain. So guys keep in mind.
Nino: As soon as you have like a fourplex, you're now in a pretty much like a, we're going to call it in commercial zones. That's where the OBC applies. You still have residential use, but it's actually now a little bit more stringent than actually your, they call it one, two to three family unit.
Paul: Yeah. And I will say to the city, we've noticed too, just in general, Like Nick mentioned a little bit ago, um, enforcement things have been getting stricter as, as time has gone on, but for triplexes in particular, cause you're right on that border between jumping from the residential code over into the commercial code.
Paul: And because of that, the city looks at it through a lens, you know, like even right, like it almost is commercial, even though technically it's not. Yeah. I know we
Nick: had to do, we did, we've done a couple, Triplex is recently and they are now making us do fire ratings for the commercial side and then some civil engineering work typically.
Nick: Yeah,
Nino: so you submitted the drawings and then there is a high possibility you're actually going to receive the comments from the city. One after that, can you explain a little bit more about that?
Nick: Yeah, usually you're going to get a few comments. They'll, uh, It's interesting because over the years, um, they'd always come back with a few comments, you know, and you, we submit drawings and they've always come back with a few, we make those corrections.
Nick: And we would document this on our, on our, you know, in our office and say, and include that information on all future plans. So plans are getting better and better and better over the years, but they always come back with more and more and more. So it's almost, almost like I'm only going to spend 20 minutes reviewing these plans.
Nick: I'm going to make sure the big points are taken care of and we're going to let this through. Yeah. Right.
Nino: But now it's. It's getting a little bit stringent and more stringent, especially if they, I mean, amongst the, the plan examiner, they already know who's a good architect, who is not that great either.
Nino: And they usually like trying to demand more good stuff from, from good architects, just to purify that design. Well, you know, something
Paul: it's like. And again, like it's not necessarily that we, they want to see more. It's like they just want to document it somewhere. Exactly. Like maybe it's covered in the inspection phase.
Paul: The inspectors out on site, they inspect it, they sign off on it. I agree. But they want the approved plans to match whatever they do on site and they want it all documented ahead of time. And so when we get some of these comments back, that's all it is really. It's not that we forgot something or that we messed up, right?
Paul: Sometimes that happens. Sure. We're human, but most of the time it's because they've changed the way they're looking at things. They're processing things and they want to document it in a certain
Nino: way. And, and this is excellent that you said actually, because even though they send the inspector on site, they cannot actually be there 24 seven.
Nino: So they, there's the reason they, because they will also put to the burden of this, that this project is done correctly on a professionals. So, actually you are guaranteeing and your drawings are guaranteeing that this project will be executed according to these drawings. Because as we know, we don't have a hundred percent control over construction, but, and therefore they will like to see, you will see that tendency more and more stuff on a drawings.
Nick: Yeah. And. The city's actually been recommending us. We get calls all the time that said, Hey, the city gave us your information to do drawings, but we still get comments that come back. Oh, yes. They're constantly trying to improve their
Nino: day, improving their stuff. Because, uh, guys, I can tell you this thing too, like, uh, on several occasions, uh, we will actually hit by inspection on, on a project, uh, on a, some items that didn't actually, uh, they were not caught up by, they were not like, uh, notified by the plan examiner.
Nino: They're humans. They, they may overlook some items. Inspector is there. He's on site and, uh, he may not do something. And then even though it's not actually indicated in, in, in the comments and you get full permit, you still have to address this issue that was brought up by the inspector.
Nick: And a lot of times, a lot of times we can handle that with like a letter of deviation, that's stamped, that just.
Nick: That describes it, you know,
Nino: a unique uniqueness of condition, right?
Nick: So sometimes we don't have to necessarily modify the drawings. No, you have to provide that letter. But sometimes
Nino: we do. And also sometimes there is, there is also called unforeseen conditions that we cannot see. We don't have that power. I wish I have, but we don't have that power to see through the walls, through the, through the dirt and you don't have x ray vision.
Nino: You know, unfortunately, no, I wish our
Paul: 30, 000 laser skinner is not, X ray either. Yeah. Yeah.
Nino: So it
Paul: should be for 30 grand. Sometimes they can actually,
Nino: you know, when you're demoing the walls, you can, you can discover all kinds of stuff. So it's not first and it's not last time. So, and that can actually change the, change the, your, uh, Code applying, uh,
Paul: yeah, and I think, I think I've noticed like a lot of times before, definitely a letter was good, but more and more, it seems like they want you to go back and update the drawings because again, like we've had a lot of times where the contractor will build it slightly different.
Paul: It doesn't match the drawings. Sorry. You either got to redo it or the drawings have to be updated. Things got to match. So like in upper Arlington, we had a project that was a huge, huge pain because the contractor deviated, right? The building department would not take a letter. And so we had to go through this whole process of updating drawings and, you know, coordination with the contractor to get things to match.
Nick: Absolutely. No, that was, I remember that. And this is also why we try to sit down with our, if, if, if the client isn't the contractor. We, we ask the client if they have a contractor, have them come to the design review or at least review the drawings before you get started so we can make those changes.
Nino: And owner also, if it is like, uh, if we now exceeding a little bit and going to more like a bigger project, commercial projects, I wonder also have an options to high architect for a contract administration job.
Nino: And he actually in a frequent period, uh, oversees the construction of the drawings, review the submittals and just go on a site and make sure that everything that is being built is according to the plans. That he actually signed and approved and created.
Paul: Yeah. All right. So it's been submitted, right? Is there fees that we have to pay to, to the city?
Paul: There are fees we have to pay and those have gone up. You said, right? Those
Nick: have gone up. I think the fees start at 335 for a residential renovation. So if you have a single family home and you're doing an interior renovation, it's 333, 335 bucks. And it goes up from there. Commercial spaces. I think it's, Oh, is it, is it 600?
Nick: And then for the first 5, 000 square foot and then for every square foot after that, it's like 10 bucks or something like that.
Nino: It increases. Yeah.
Nick: I think it maxes out at a million dollars. So if you're doing a, a million square foot project, you'll pay a million dollars for your permit.
Nino: Yeah, I have a project that I pay like, uh, uh, the recent one, I actually pay 130, 000 for a, for a building permit in Upper Arlington.
Nino: So yeah, you, if you have big buildings, you, you actually pay bigger fee because it takes them more time to review all these drawings. That's why.
Paul: So we've paid the fees. We've gone through what one revision process, two revision process, right? However many it takes, we have approval, then we just want to go pick up the permit and that's it.
Paul: That's it. End of story. Everyone can go home happy. Yeah, I know, right? Well, and even if you have approval, they can roll it back, too. I mean, we've seen that in recent times, too. You have your approval, and then all of a sudden they decide, Well, actually, we changed our minds, and we want you to go back and look at something.
Nick: Well, in some circumstances, they'll discover, like, work, like, Maybe the project wasn't demoed, right? And then they go into a demo phase, and then on their first inspection, they realize, like, Oh, this roof is a new roof. Like the structure of it's new, this permit was never pulled and no one, nobody knew about it because the previous owner did it.
Nick: I cannot remember that. That was a headache. So then we had to go back and you remember the fire process.
Nino: Yeah, because we, we, we couldn't see that roof is new, the structure is new because there was like a full ceiling there. We can actually see through the drywall. And, uh, when they start demoing, then we actually figure out that, uh, firewall.
Nino: This is, should actually, that should separate the different units were running only up to the previous flat roof. Now they removed the flat roof. Now they put like a gable on it and they never extended the fire separation all the way to underneath the roof. My stomach is hurting
Nick: just thinking about this stuff and I don't even have an appendix anymore.
Nino: That's
Nick: a good one,
Nino: but yeah, and yes as soon as you get your permit You are actually obligated to keep your approved set of the drawings all the time on site During the construction. So when you have and also you have to schedule the inspections Also, you have to be sure that for a certain works you may have some Something that is called special inspection.
Nino: For example, if you do any like, uh, um, special inspection is usually related to the, like, um, concrete work, uh, reinforcing to any structural support. Welding. So, and you will actually, if you, if you haven't submitted, uh, or having special inspection indicator on your joints for some jurisdiction, like, uh, for, uh, Columbus, they have their special form for a special inspection that you have to fill in.
Nino: Sounds special. Signs special, exactly. And they will tell you like, guys, you, you're actually having, you have to actually, you're welding these two beams together. You need special inspection for that. Or do you actually pour in the concrete? You need special inspection for that. I mean,
Nick: even fireplaces and residential houses require an additional inspection.
Nick: Exactly.
Nino: So, and that's what actually entails for that special inspection is a third party inspector, usually hired by the owner who actually go on site. When they pour in the concrete, they're going to grab the samples of that concrete and just make sure that what they're doing in the concrete, they actually.
Nino: Putting into your building, in your basement, in your slab, meets all the requirements. The concrete hardens after 28 days, they're going to go and lab test that, if it passes a certain number of PSIs, and they're going to put that in a report. So, and then all these reports by this third party inspector, We'll be on the end of the construction, we'll be signed and reported on that sheet.
Nino: And then you're going to submit that to the city to receive your certificate of occupancy.
Nick: Good segue
Paul: for certificate of occupancy. I was going to say, I'll also say, obviously the contractor, if you have a contractor on board is dealing with a lot of the inspection and the process and closing things.
Paul: Yes,
Nino: they have to schedule it. Contractor is the one who schedules the inspection.
Paul: Take one step back. I know. I think Nick mentioned it. When you go down to the city, you might. Also have like the owner affidavit form with you. If the owner does that and they're signing that form and submitting it with the plans in the original submission, they're, the owner's on the hook for everything.
Paul: Liability wise, not the contractor, it's not the contractor. It's not their job to get the inspection done to make sure everything passes to get things closed out. The owner takes on all that responsibility. If you're doing a complicated job.
Nick: And again, you can only do this for residential or commercial commercial.
Nick: You have to have a license and everything, but if you're doing a complicated residential project, probably not the best idea. If it's a simple interior innovation, it can help fast track things, especially if you don't have your contractor identified right off the bat. Um, so you can get your permit approval.
Nick: You can get all these things in place. This way, by the time you get your contract signed with your contractor, um, You're ready to go. Yeah.
Paul: I just wanted to toss that out there. Cause again, people, people might think again, Oh great, I can just get things done faster. Right. But all that liability and responsibility falls on your shoulders.
Paul: So if you submit that affidavit with your permit submission, it's now on you to get everything done. A lot
Nick: of
Paul: our clients are investors
Nick: and sometimes they manage those projects themselves. So they have a bunch of subs. So they're actually. They're acting as the contractor. Yeah, depends.
Nino: But another reason is you guys can now hear in our conversation here that if project getting more complicated, there's more things involved into it.
Nino: And therefore I would like to have, and I recommend to all of you to have like a Hire the architect who is usually like a one source that you can communicate. He can give you the good advice and explain the entire process. Because as we talk, like it's not same if you actually renovating your, your house, and if, for example, you planning to open like a, the new, like at the office building, so it's like a completely different animal and just like getting more and more complicated.
Nino: So. Usually when you like, uh, talk to your architects, like this, like, uh, initial, uh, advises, they're usually like, uh, do we actually charge for like this first initial, I was just about to mention it. So you can have
Paul: an onsite consultation on site consultation. Nick will actually come out. He has a calendar that's set up.
Paul: You can basically, I think we can also give a link to this as well, where it's like you can schedule it. You pay a very small fee just to cover the time for him to come out and you talk about your project on the project site. Go through all the details about what might happen, what might not happen, what you're thinking, what you're not thinking, kind of maybe even get a plan together.
Paul: So even if you decide not to move forward with us, you walk away possibly with a plan to move forward. And he can, and he can
Nino: tell you like a right away, like, Oh, you're going to need permit for this. Oh, you're going to need this for that. And think about this because it's just how many years of experience now we have through the, uh, for the Nestor is now arc fluence.
Nino: That's,
Nick: um, gosh, I mean, we've been designing for, Almost 20 years. Yeah. Um, I think we've been, I think I started nesters in 2014.
Nino: Yeah. So yeah, so there is a lot of clients that went through the, through Nestor's and now our fluence. So yeah, we definitely have a knowledge you can help you guys with.
Paul: And obviously if you, you don't move forward with us, then we have our time covered, but if you do, then we just discounted off of the cost of the drawings.
Paul: So then it ends up being essentially a free consultation, right? If you move forward with us and have us be your architect on the project.
Nick: Yep. And we do have some investors that. Don't pull permits. They're just old school and they're, and they're, and they're small projects, even though they should be pulling permits and, and they just want to bounce some ideas off of us.
Nick: Yeah, exactly. If you're doing some preliminary planning, we can also determine like, Hey, I'm, I'm living in this house and I want to, I want to buy another house. What do I want to do with this property? Do I want to sell it? Do I want to hold it? Do I want to rent it? How can I, You know, how can I update this to maximize property value?
Nick: And we can go through that process to see what makes the most sense.
Nino: And if you don't have money on board right away, we can tell you like, you know, phasing may be one of the options. So one thing's Nick, if you can explain to our listeners is if you're doing something, you need a permit, you don't pull out the permit and you got caught.
Nino: What actually happened? So we get a lot of business
Nick: this way. Yeah. Um, During COVID, they recollected their thoughts on this, and Columbus has put a lot of money and energy into hiring new staff members. Staff
Paul: just to look for people that are Yeah, some, their
Nick: only purpose is to drive around town looking for dumpsters and construction projects.
Nick: To look for these people that are trying to get around the system. And verifying that they have a permit pulled. Um, and if they don't, they give a stop work order, and now they're starting to fine you. I think we're at the phase right now where You know, it's, you can, you can say, Hey, we're engaging in architects.
Nick: We're going through these steps as you recommended. Can we please get this feed, this fine dropped in a lot of cases, they are dropping as long as we, as long as they address it within like 90 days.
Nino: Yeah. And that's their goal, just to make the environment safe, you know, because as we go through the history, like remember big, like a Chicago fire that happened in the city to almost decimated, like a half of the city happened because the building were just built next to each other from the materials that they're just like a burning.
Nino: So, you know, it
Nick: happened because a cow kicked over a lantern. A lantern. Exactly. That's the story. That's exactly. So shouldn't we be safe since we don't have any cows, but there's always new technology, cows. You're good. Yeah. Chickens though. Watch out for the chickens. You can have up to, you can have chickens.
Nick: You can have chickens. It's like four, four or six chickens that you're allowed to have in the city. Oh, I
Nino: didn't know that.
Nick: And you can have bees
Nino: too. Really? They're beekeepers. Oh, nice. Can pollinate your like, uh, backyard, front yard neighborhoods. Cool. I like it. I like it. I like
Nick: it. What were you talking about?
Nino: Talking about bees, I guess. Okay, great. Yeah.
Nick: Yeah. Um, so, so we, we have our permitting, we got, we got our permit, we're going through inspections and then we have our final inspection, the, the, the final inspections basically, at least on the residential side, um, confirms that all trades were inspected, you know, you're all the, all these, everything's good to go and everything's signed off.
Nick: And then they do check like. Um, a couple things on the final, like your smoke detectors, they make sure that they're linked.
Nino: Yep.
Nick: Um, they check for the address. You need to have your address posted on the house and a few other things that might jump out them, like, uh, steps, like easy access to the door that sometimes we wait to put the stairs on and, you know, to access if there's a couple of stairs that's needed, they make sure that you can access the property, um, and that everything else is good to go.
Nick: Then they sign off on the final inspection. Now, a lot of cases that signature. Counts as a certificate of occupancy or you for a smaller project Yeah, and then what and or you send it in and submit it and they send you that certificate
Nino: Yes, that's usually how it as soon as you're as Nick said you're all trades like a plumbing Electrical mechanical life safety as the usually the the major Inspections that you're gonna have on your building.
Nino: Everything is signed off dated and Then you submit this approved documents. Sometimes, for example, for one of my bigger projects, uh, they'll send me like a photos from there. Like, uh, the logbook, it all sign up and I'll post that on directly on the website. They accept that and then issue me the certificate of occupancy for a building.
Nino: There is also something that is called temporary certificate, certificate occupancy. So that's usually happened like on a fast track jobs. Or, uh, if a contractor is a little bit late and now like, uh, one of my projects, I need to have owner to bring all their equipments and stuff, but they won't let owner people to get there till building is at least temporary occupied on the only love contractors to like run the building and project.
Nino: So sometimes you need to go through that procedure in order to kind of fast track the project or in order to catch up with the project.
Nick: And also getting your COI is important because. It has some insurance implications. Because
Nino: all your insurances will kick on on the day you receive the certificate occupancy.
Nino: For example, if you have your like a 10 year or 15 year roof insurance, that insurance will start kicking on on the day you receive the certificate occupancy.
Paul: All right. There's a lot of, a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. Yeah.
Nino: And once again, as things getting complicated, uh, process get complicated too. So,
Paul: yeah. And again, I think that's where it takes value, right. In hiring somebody to help you through the process. Yeah. We're
Nick: also going to post, um, an attic conversions, um, sheet below too.
Nick: Um, it's basically just, uh, all the different requirements that they now require for, if we're going to require it. Convert an attic space to livable space. This
Nino: is actually a good topic, Nick. If you can maybe give us through your experience that you have with all these clients, and we can actually stick on a, on a, like a smaller residential house renovations or up to three apartments renovations.
Nino: What are the common things? Uh, like, uh, you mentioned attic conversion, basement conversion, additions. Uh, can you give us like a couple of advices? Like, uh, what should we look, uh, to make sure that what we're doing is actually meets the code requirements and we can get our permit with less headache.
Nick: So obviously we're always trying to add square footage at the least amount of cost.
Nick: So before we look at an addition, we're seeing if we can fit any additional square footage into the footprint itself that already exists. A lot of time that's in the basement or the attic space. Yeah. Now, years ago we were able just to finish the attic and we're good. Right.
Paul: And also the reason why you want to use what's existing, right.
Paul: Either the basement or the attic is because then you don't have to go through zoning. Correct. If you start changing stuff to the exterior significantly, all of a sudden it can trigger Increasing the heights and stuff. It can trigger zoning stuff. But we also Which will then take longer and increase fees and
Nick: But when you're doing an attic conversion or basement conversion and we're creating that finished space, we're, we're taxing the existing mechanicals.
Nick: And we're also, we need to, we need to check a lot of different points. Like exactly is a lot of times in attic space, you know, you walk up in that trap door and it's insulated on the, on the ceiling of the second floor, right? Yes. Um, so. If you would finish that space, a, maybe there's a staircase, but maybe there's not.
Nick: So we need a proper access to that space.
Nino: Number one.
Nick: We need to make sure it's insulated. Um, we need to make sure it's structurally sound. Yes. A lot
Paul: of these are just storage, right? And it's light duty storage, not, you know, some Christmas decorations up there. Exactly. So all
Nick: the rules change when you're living up there.
Nick: If you're putting a bedroom, especially bathroom.
Nino: Because there is a cold live load. Yeah.
Nick: So we have height clearances. The stairs require a six foot, eight inch height clearance at all points.
Nino: Exactly. And
Nick: then in the, in the basement and in the attic space, at least 50 percent of the space must be seven feet or above.
Nick: Exactly. So sometimes we find ourselves adding dormers to get around not popping the top, which simply means ripping off the entire roof. Yeah. A more affordable way to raise the ceiling is just to do a dormer.
Nino: Yeah. And still in that case, maybe it's depending of your restriction. We may bypass the zoning, but just like a dormer, depending some, some jurisdiction may be like, Oh, now you're changing the aesthetic of the house.
Nino: They can force you to do the zoning. They'll
Nick: go through at this point. All of our projects go through zoning now with when we add dormers,
Nino: make sense.
Paul: Uh, last thing I think you forgot to mention, uh, egress, right? So that's the only other thing I think that you rattled off with tons of stuff there. So if you're
Nick: in a basement and egress windows and easy fix, um, I think we just did a flip in upper Arlington, um, several months ago and that cost us 45, is it 3, Or I think we had the choice between the two.
Nick: Um, you know, the simple version was 3,500 bucks. Yeah. And they, they do it in a day.
Nino: They do it in a day, and you
Nick: have to put that in a bedroom space. So if you're finishing a basement and there's no bedroom down there,
Nino: no need for egress window, no
Nick: need for egress window. Um, if you're having a bedroom, must have egress window.
Nick: Yes. Same with the attic space. If it's, if it's a bonus room Yeah. And you're not gonna, and you don't wanna count it to your bedrooms, um, you know, as a finished space. But by the way, if you put a bathroom up there, they're gonna make you. Have an egress that's in the main in the main area whether you call it a bedroom or not But um
Nino: because they know where we have exactly know what you do.
Nino: Yeah So
Nick: you'll need a you'll need an egress window in In the bedroom itself and that's gonna basically give you a 5. 8 square foot clearance. So if I've got 5. 7 5. 7 Yeah, 5. 7. All right. Well, I like to overdo it Um, better safe than sorry, a little bit higher. Yeah. Well, if you have a double hung window, which means it's only going to half the windows opening, or in some cases, depending on the quality, it might not be half less, might be less than that.
Nick: Yeah. Then you need to make sure that that opening equals that 5. 7 square feet. Yeah. And
Nino: I think there is like a minimum bit and minimum height and,
Paul: and distance off of the floor, the floor. Exactly. Cause you gotta be able to crawl out of the window.
Nino: As you said, pointed out that in case of the emergency and fire, it just allows you to escape from that room.
Nick: And we specify all this in our drawings. Now, sometimes I know there, the standard window sizes change from manufacturer, manufacturer. So we also have that conversation with our clients. Like where are you buying your windows from? Let us know if there's a standard size that you want us to use so we can have that reflected in the window and door schedule.
Nick: Yes.
Nino: And one things that I would like to mention, like we talk about life safety a lot, but another things we mentioned is, uh, uh, energy efficiency. So for example, if you, uh, want to make your spell space valuable, uh, in the basement, you need to provide insulation per code requirements. So. Which is usually done by doing the, uh, a furring wall with, uh, with a bath insulation between studs in attic things are a little bit different because of the high R value required by energy code.
Nino: So if you're really having like attic space, you most likely will need to do closed cell spray foam insulation. To me, that are 49 requirements.
Nick: And the reason is so we can keep the ceiling height and have more function because every
Nino: inch of the ceiling space is. Bonus.
Nick: Yeah. And we, we typically do like three foot knee walls for electrical.
Nick: I think that's our minimum. But, um, did you know that if you, they only count finished square foot from five foot five foot? Exactly.
Nino: So your clearance is as, as a usable space is calculated with the minimum overhead height of five feet.
Nick: Correct. But we'll still try to add a little bit more space to make that room feel bigger.
Nick: Just
Nino: feel bigger. Yeah.
Nick: And, or you can do built ins, whatever you want to do. Yeah,
Nino: that is correct.
Nick: All right. What else?
Nino: Yeah, I will actually mention a couple other little things, especially for people they're planning to do the additions to their houses. One things that they have to pay attention is, uh, just the clearances and distances from, from, uh, from the property line.
Nino: Uh, I always advise, um, our clients to not, uh, go closer than five feet to the property line. Fire rating. Fire rating. Because as soon as you go encroach that distance, then you have to fire rate of walls.
Paul: And even if you're right up against it, right. You still have a potentially overhanging roof. That's going to be closer.
Paul: So I will, if
Nino: you, if you're really pushing and says like, I don't care, I'm going to fire rate of all, then don't go more than two feet because. As soon as you encroach more than two feet, you'll not be able to do any like, uh, eaves, roof eaves. And, and
Nick: that's mostly for commercial. Um, in the residential side, if you have side yard setbacks that you just can't go that close.
Nick: They just cannot dare that close. And if you do, you're going to need to go through the variance process.
Nino: Exactly. That is correct. And also, even if you have sometimes raided walls, you still have Can have an openings in this walls, uh, and they don't need to be rated. If you keeping this openings less than 25 percent of the total area of the, of that facade.
Nino: So just a couple of tricks there that you guys have to pay attention. If you're doing addition to your house, man,
Nick: this stuff is so exciting. I love it. Yeah. And we just, we scratched the surface. We were, Oh yeah. There's just scratched. Well, like Nino said, every project is different. We have to address. Yeah.
Nick: That uniqueness of that property based on the circumstances. Yes. Yeah.
Paul: I think this was a good broad overview of everything, right? We'll have a ton of links up there that people can dig through. And then obviously, again, they can reach out for a consultation or they can, you know, hire us to take on the project and we can get into all the nitty gritty details.
Nick: this has been a fun episode, you guys. We'll see you guys on the next one. Wish you the best. Take care.
Paul: This has been the ArcFluence Podcast. As always, you can get more information and additional content on arcfluence. com. Please subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review.